4g61t.org

Specializing in the 3g CSM
It is currently Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:29 am

All times are UTC-05:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 301 posts ]  Go to page Previous 117 18 19 20 21 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:15 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Oddly enough, no stress cracking across any surface where contact occurs between the clutch friction surface and the pressure plate and flywheel. I assume that if heat was deep enough, stress cracks would be showing and the parts would be structurally compromised if deep enough. A light scuff with low grit sandpaper and the friction surfaces look great.

The only way to drive this setup, was to slip/clutch in balance as you exit the garage and enter the garage, and parking lot maneuvers were painful and required some slipping and lots of clutch application to disengage the power flow.
I do have a FIAV and high OEM cold idle range that is totally operational, but this is nothing out of the ordinary and it stock so this should not be an issue.
It does however spending more time with the clutch held down, simply because of the low speed handling during really maneuvers.

Let see if more mass on the flywheel and lower direct pressure on the tob/fork/hydraulics can help make this little tin can a bit more drive-able.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:00 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Emailed Advanced Clutch Technologies about the strap/spring fingers issue.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:42 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
No response to my email thus far.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:40 am 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
ACT has been in contact. They asked for some visuals and I provided a multitude of pictures along the lines of what is posted, and more of what was not.
Hoping to hear back soon.

In the meantime, there are multiple parts orders en route to my home.
One parcel arrived today, and another also from Japan having just shipped from that island.
STMTuned *had some stock on early style or 1990 4g63t USDM TEL or 1989 4g61t USDM Mirage/Colt TB FIAV gaskets. They are no longer in production, so wherever a warehouse has some, that’s all you are going to find.
I was curious about Cyclone dual runner style sectional gaskets, and those sadly were out of production a few years back and it showed all over the net as such. Mitsu has them as NLA in all the electronic catalog listings. Good to know the part numbers still show up though.

I will provide some pictures of the first parcels contents as it arrived from Japan. Japan always does an over the top job of packaging all items they send out. I will likely have to offload pictures from my phone to get them to upload properly.

Ninja Edit *I suspect I got the last of their stock.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:36 pm 
Offline
Some call me a god
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 1025
Location: Lyndhurst,VA
Quote:
ACT has been in contact. They asked for some visuals and I provided a multitude of pictures along the lines of what is posted, and more of what was not.
Hoping to hear back soon.

In the meantime, there are multiple parts orders en route to my home.
One parcel arrived today, and another also from Japan having just shipped from that island.
STMTuned has some stock on early style or 1990 4g63t USDM TEL or 1989 4g61t USDM Mirage/Colt TB FIAV gaskets. They are no longer in production, so wherever a warehouse has some, that’s all you are going to find.
I was curious about Cyclone dual runner style sectional gaskets, and those sadly were out of production a few years back and it showed all over the net as such. Mitsu has them as NLA in all the electronic catalog listings. Good to know the part numbers still show up though.

I will provide some pictures of the first parcels contents as it arrived from Japan. Japan always does an over the top job of packaging all items they send out. I will likely have to offload pictures from my phone to get them to upload properly.
It would be nice if someone would scan the flanges and had some phenolic gaskets made for the cyclone dual runner manifolds. I have one loose at my garage that hasn't been split and also have one on the way on a original JDM GVR4 swap that will be going into the Colt I got from AZ. Guess there isn't enough demand to warrant them. :(

_________________
Joey Santiago

2003 Lancer Evolution 57k original miles
1992 Montero LS
1989 Plymouth Colt GT (AWD project)
1989 Dodge Colt GT


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:36 am 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Essentially, using gasket sheets to create a copy from a tracing, is about all the gasket setups we are likely to get. Would be great to have someone scan the ports though; that would be really cool!

I would love to see a person walk into a copy store with sections of the intake and ask to put them down on the copier surface, so they could copy them.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:12 am 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
If someone had a set of OEM gaskets - a copy would not get the little rubber silicone rings for seals but ... - they could be scanned into a file to be used for cutting new sheets to spec.

On a side note but build related, I went looking for throttle body parts as I knew that I had done some rebuilding not that long ago, but things can now be nearly a decade old because my clutch install was 2010, and major engine work wasn't until 2013? on the refresh, with some more updating around 2015 with the Cyclone parts installation and activation via ECMLinkV3.
I had ordered enough parts to rebuild three TB's of the early style; 1989 4g61t and 1990 4g63t throttle bodies were unique in that they had a single casting which incorporated the FIAV and ISC chambers with the main core of the throttle body - that includes chambers for coolant flow - but coolant cannot mix in the TB by design unlike the 1991 TB castings that had a split body and the coolant could get past the O-ring for the FIAV and be ingested by the motor!

Both style of TB, the 1989 4g61t and the 1990 4g63t use two different size oil seals to keep the throttle shaft sealed to the housing during motor operation - IE no boost leaks or vacuum leaks off boost.

1990 Throttle Body uses the Chicago Rawhide CR 3930 seal on the spring-side and the smaller CR 3030 seal on the TPS side.

Full specs:
3030 CR 8x12x3 HM4 R
3930 CR 10x14x3 HM4 R

These are oil seals by design, if you are using any other cross reference due to product shortage with Chicago Rawhide.

Dimensions are in millimeters.

1989 4g61t and 1990 4g63t use TWO sizes of oil seal, one of each. (3930 CR 10x14x3 HM4 R) and (3030 CR 8x12x3 HM4 R)
1991+ USDM style uses two (total count) identical (3930 CR 10x14x3 HM4 R) oil seals.

I rebuilt my 89 Colt 4g61t TB with those CR parts, and since then a 1990 DSM TB using those seals yet again.

Went into my stash of little random baggies on the shelves, and found I have still have one 3930 and three 3030 seals in reserve. I won't have to order any to do a refurb for the sake of refurb. Do I trust a seal that has less than 6k km's of use on it? Maybe ... but for 10-15$ worth of parts I already have here, I will install them and call it good, as I don't want to be going in for TB removal if boost/vacuum does leak for any reason. New parts or bust!

Also found a BISS O-ring NIB OEM and a BISS cap plug - now the plug is probably a duplicate but it's good to have around.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:19 pm 
Offline
Some call me a god
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 1025
Location: Lyndhurst,VA
Quote:
Essentially, using gasket sheets to create a copy from a tracing, is about all the gasket setups we are likely to get. Would be great to have someone scan the ports though; that would be really cool!

I would love to see a person walk into a copy store with sections of the intake and ask to put them down on the copier surface, so they could copy them.
ahhhh you maybe onto something here! I am gonna try and split my loose manifold later tonight and see if I can get it off in one piece, if I think that it isn't going to work I'll trace it out on heavy duty construction paper. Then tomorrow I'll scan it at work to the exact size and see if I can email the scan to someone that can print out gaskets on a 3d printer.

_________________
Joey Santiago

2003 Lancer Evolution 57k original miles
1992 Montero LS
1989 Plymouth Colt GT (AWD project)
1989 Dodge Colt GT


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:41 pm 
Offline
Some call me a god
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 1025
Location: Lyndhurst,VA
Quote:
If someone had a set of OEM gaskets - a copy would not get the little rubber silicone rings for seals but ... - they could be scanned into a file to be used for cutting new sheets to spec.

On a side note but build related, I went looking for throttle body parts as I knew that I had done some rebuilding not that long ago, but things can now be nearly a decade old because my clutch install was 2010, and major engine work wasn't until 2013? on the refresh, with some more updating around 2015 with the Cyclone parts installation and activation via ECMLinkV3.
I had ordered enough parts to rebuild three TB's of the early style; 1989 4g61t and 1990 4g63t throttle bodies were unique in that they had a single casting which incorporated the FIAV and ISC chambers with the main core of the throttle body - that includes chambers for coolant flow - but coolant cannot mix in the TB by design unlike the 1991 TB castings that had a split body and the coolant could get past the O-ring for the FIAV and be ingested by the motor!

Both style of TB, the 1989 4g61t and the 1990 4g63t use two different size oil seals to keep the throttle shaft sealed to the housing during motor operation - IE no boost leaks or vacuum leaks off boost.

1990 Throttle Body uses the Chicago Rawhide CR 3930 seal on the spring-side and the smaller CR 3030 seal on the TPS side.

Full specs:
3030 CR 8x12x3 HM4 R
3930 CR 10x14x3 HM4 R

These are oil seals by design, if you are using any other cross reference due to product shortage with Chicago Rawhide.

Dimensions are in millimeters.

1989 4g61t and 1990 4g63t use TWO sizes of oil seal, one of each. (3930 CR 10x14x3 HM4 R) and (3030 CR 8x12x3 HM4 R)
1991+ USDM style uses two (total count) identical (3930 CR 10x14x3 HM4 R) oil seals.

I rebuilt my 89 Colt 4g61t TB with those CR parts, and since then a 1990 DSM TB using those seals yet again.

Went into my stash of little random baggies on the shelves, and found I have still have one 3930 and three 3030 seals in reserve. I won't have to order any to do a refurb for the sake of refurb. Do I trust a seal that has less than 6k km's of use on it? Maybe ... but for 10-15$ worth of parts I already have here, I will install them and call it good, as I don't want to be going in for TB removal if boost/vacuum does leak for any reason. New parts or bust!

Also found a BISS O-ring NIB OEM and a BISS cap plug - now the plug is probably a duplicate but it's good to have around.
Nice info.

I found this on a quick search. https://tech.mirage-performance.com/tef ... asket.html

Seems a bit tedious but that material which a lot of performance aftermarket suppliers use seals very well and I have never had a problem reusing one (on the same manifold and head) after my Magnus intake manifold cracked a few times. :rolleyes:

_________________
Joey Santiago

2003 Lancer Evolution 57k original miles
1992 Montero LS
1989 Plymouth Colt GT (AWD project)
1989 Dodge Colt GT


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:02 am 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Got some good news with relation to the ACT clutch assembly.

Seems the diaphragm spring clean split - clean break. Pics to show this.

I was in contact with Eric at ACT and gave him pictures of the whole inspection process complete with serial numbers showing, and all the het copper transfer areas, nothing serious but it meant the disc would disengage and engage lopsided. Eric asked that I weld or destroy the parts in question so they could not be used for warranty/return or be sold to anyone else.
Pics to show that.

Eric was kind enough to put together a replacement kit - pro bono - IE free, with the caveat being that I would pay import fees.

Bear in mind that this clutch was purchased 04/30/2010 time frame, and ACT only covers their products "technically" for a period of one year from date of purchase.

My setup has like 5-6000km's on it to date, so given it has only ever been street driven and never been to the track or used in a racing scenario, it stands to reason that the base materials should not be affected this way - defect it should be.

This is a huge restoration of faith in the product and I am very thankful to ACT for even considering a replacement under a goodwill warranty scenario.

Again, my transmission (now 2, 1 even having newer syncros and design) was never able to shift with the rpms in an elevated range like 6K+ rpm. Was this defect present for some time? Remember my clutch pedal did go limp a few seasons back and I had to rebuilt the master (temp scenario). Felt strange after that but didn't seem to drive much different, however I was likely having to press the clutch pedal further down to offset the lopsided nature of things. My last high RPM shift resulted in gear grind, so it was there when the car was last driven.

Situation sorted for now, and product is supposed to be sent ground freight on Monday.

Pics as promised!


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 4:51 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
ACT clutch kit has arrived, and therefore many thanks to the ACT crew for their help in the matter.

Transmission bolt holes all tapped/cleaned, and the transmission has been bolted back in with the scattershield being put back into service at this time.

All the flywheel bolts are back to being OEM that would have come off when the ARP's went in, but the ARP's are designed for a very thick flywheel flange like the Fidanza.

With that in mind, I was able to measure remaining bolt dimensions with the bolts bottomed into the crank snout, and ARP's ala Toyota 3GTS 1" UHL (under head length), were too long.

Factory bolts are 22.5mm long for the Colt/DSM/Galant 6 bolts, and the ARPS converted to metric at 25.4mm. I did not have a stock flywheel flange to compare the ACT Streetlite flange thickness to.

Others have used the factory bolts, so this is what I did, with a proper amount of red loctite and a torque sequence of 30-60-100 ft/lbs spec is 94-101 IIRC.

A boat load of warehouse closeout goods arrived through RockAuto.com, so I have many master and slave cylinders to work with should anything go wrong with my OEM NABCO 1G replacement (1G OEM currently installed and rebuilt 1x already). 1 OEM master clutch cylinder cost more than 7 Wagner boxes, which contain 1989 5/8" NABCO Mirage/Dodge/Plymouth turbo type. They were NABCO OEM in Wagner boxes, but some are old like 2001/2 era, most newer, so if seals are of any issue, at least each unit was something like $20 CDN, so a rebuild kit isn't the end of the world to purchase at a later time. I have seen them listed for anywhere close to $100 but I'm sure can be sourced cheaper.

The whole idea behind putting the SBC plate assembly inside the shifting setup, was the help with pedal feel and get that as close to stock as possible, and SAVE the hydraulics.
Also, if the heavier flywheel nets me less time clutching in to avoid low speed stuttering (assuming not solely due to tune on larger injectors versus Denso matching the ECU better at low speeds), only time will tell.

Throttle body has been disassembled, cleaned, documented to confirm parts before they came apart - with spares beside it to help out - and then clear was applied to the bare polished aluminum.

New SKF/CR seals were installed small/large 1x each, and a new FIAV O ring was sourced and put in. To add, I tried to port some of the rough edge's are 90 degree transitions inside the idle air circuit in the main casting.
I'm not sure if it will help with flow or not, but it could not hurt in my opinion because idle has never been great and I'm sure cams and tune don't help.
Also of note, is that I confirmed a modification to the 90 DSM TB is required to fit the newer black style IAC solenoid assembly, due to contact on a spot where the casting is too thick to even allow a socket on the hex/JIS philips style screws. I purchased M5x0.8 Allen head socket screws at 16mm with lock washers and flat washers, because they would have been too long due to the thicker flange on the newer style housing, but also a 12mm might not have had enough thread to tighten the screws with any great confidence/effort and hope they don't strip. Removing the IAC bolts will never be an issue ever again - just don't forget the long hex tool!

Thinking about going back to 750 RPM, so it never wants to ramp up timing while chasing the best idle sequence. I think I am set at 800-850 like a GVR4.

There are many pictures of the transmission as it went in, and the TB as it went through the paces of rebuild, so I will finally have a complete TB rebuild thread for the first time since my pics went down with the gallery, so many years ago.

I'll upload when I have time.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 10:24 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Called to inquire about Hagerty Classic car insurance. I just tallied up my receipts that do not include the purchase price of the car ... eeep. I am at $17K and counting. You would never know it to see the outside though. Le sigh.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:26 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 2113
Location: Tucson Az
my van (including purchase price and the turbo/head setup i bought in 05 that only had 400 miles on it and to buy it today would cost about another 2+K to get).. ive got about 16+ into my van.


Steve

_________________
Steve 89 colt 2.3 stroker stock top end. evo3@20 psi 13.489@99.30mph 3/10 2012
On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:05 am 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
It seems to be the price of admission to get things completely squared away.

Did I mention there was no labor cost?

I’ll have to add the cost of the gauges (my labor to build the pod on the column not included once again), cost over $300 landed and the bumper from Rémy, was around $750 .... so now 18K, plus the battery box and metal brace kit that was custom installed ... the intercooler kit, the aluminum radiator, the paint work to the motor, not including the multiple sets of kyb struts and springs that were in over the years.

New rims were acquired two months ago, and they will need tires too.

I kept the ad for the AGP turbo white Colt that sold for $5500 USD a few years ago. It was pristine and likely stock.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:07 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9431
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
The Hagerty Insurance Post !!!

Went through my broker and stated my case about the car. Not sure if that helped or not, but it could not hurt when they are talking to the folks at Hagerty.
Essentially when asked if the car was modified, I answered yes but to what degree that will matter, I am not sure. Most parts are NLA (No Longer Available) from the dealers and have been for years, Dodge doesn't even know what type of car I drive, while Mitsu is still quite useful and I can walk in with part numbers if need be; but I usually use the internet for parts orders.
You can't get replacement manifolds, turbos, and a myriad of other parts, so yes the car is modified but I said it is using all Mitsubishi parts where I can. Check one for "stock".
I asked after getting the quote (I will get to that soon, promise!) if it would matter to install adjustable suspension or wheels that were still the same size overall ( rolling circumference/diameter), and the broker said that essentially as long as the vehicle wasn't modified, in that it wasn't lifted, then suspension changes and wheels were a non-issue.
So, my age now 40, clean driving record in the past three years (minors offences only stay with the record in Ontario for three years, major offences are six years), and insured since I was 17 came in at the following:

1989 Plymouth Colt 200 GT turbo.
$20,000 agreed upon value. ( I had over 17k in receipts plus other parts to account for that brought this to over 18k, not including the car)
***Full replacement at 20K in the event of a total loss.***
Rider for Cherished Salvage Coverage to keep the car should it be a complete write off.
$604 CDN/year with whatever options were selected as similar to my other daily driver.
Also, note that in this case you have to have another full time vehicle for driving to work as the bus and motorcycles do not count.
Other drivers need to be insured on other vehicles or possibly even excluded from driving the car ... in my case, not a problem for a few years yet.
They will need a copy of my ownership, an online questionnaire to be filled out, copy of the daily driver insurance policy, and one color photograph of the car from the outside.

This is very good news if others have already established insurance with Hagerty for the Mirage/Colts, as this will help add to their total and move to establish a further presence on their radar. They were listing this car in their online quote database, so this means that likely Galant VR4's will be there already.

Hope this helps some of my fellow Ontario forum members as much as it will members all over the USA, because that is where Hagerty started and is still biggest.

Hagerty LLC is underwritten by Elite Insurance Company
(Insurer)Elite Insurance Company
10 Aviva Way,
Suite 100
Markham ON
L6G 0G1


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 301 posts ]  Go to page Previous 117 18 19 20 21 Next

All times are UTC-05:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited