4g61t.org

Specializing in the 3g CSM
It is currently Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:36 pm

All times are UTC-05:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:55 pm 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
another update: i did this along with the exhaust and im finally getting it on here
this is my "junkyard" style intercooler build.
i used an oem intercooler from a mini cooper. The one from when they went to turbochargers not the top mount from the supercharged version. i happened across it on ebay and it looked very compact so i thought it might fit well. also being oem from a bmw built car i figured it might be better than the cheapo ebay units. it was also $38 bucks shipped

Now i dont recommend this intercooler for anyone else. the endtanks didnt end up clearing the sides of the stock radiator so i had to build the piping around it. if you had a scirroco style radiator it would be fine. it did fit behind the bumper well. i did cut out the ribs in the opening in the bumper and some of the foam, though i only cut the seam off the crash bar.

and with super budget build in mind i didnt even buy mandrel bends or an ebay piping kit. i just bought some 2" exhaust tubing from the local shop for ten bucks. some radiator hose and hose clamps completed my $60 total cost fmic build

everything was pie cut and welded. i know i spent a rediculous amount of time on it but i am a fabricator by trade and i thought the build process would be part of the fun.

im running megasquirt so i can accurately see charge temps and i have logs showing 220 degree temps before any intercooler and after i installed this it took an honest 100 degrees out of the charge temp for about 120 intake temps at full boost on 14b about 13-14 psi.

heres the pics. im sorry for some reason i never took pictures of the engine bay install but you can get an idea of the routing.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

here is where the stock radiator sits and you can see why its not a great choice

Image

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:38 pm 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
here is a set of non adjustable coilovers i built for the front of my car.
i built these for two reasons:
1. everything was stock but something was wrong with my front springs
(i think they sagged because they didnt look cut) it sat low and on medium bumps the tires would scrub the inner fenders.
2. ive looked over countless diy coilover threads on many forums for all kinds of cars and i've always wanted to try it.
so nothing really new here but hopefully it provides info for others and their future setups

to stay on the cheap i really approached this as an experiment or practice for one day making something great.
the only thing i purchased was qa1 springs from summit for about 80 bucks. i didn't buy any slip on coilover stuff or new struts or inserts.
this is all on the old stock crap.

for springs i first tried 9" 180lb springs but they were to low and soft they bound up at rest
so i used 10' 250lb springs.

in an old post by tonus which is awesome.
http://www.4g61t.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=28497
he put ebay coilover sleeves on his struts but he didnt cut the perches off.
his big complaint was having to use a 7" spring that was still too tall for ride height
and he wished for a 6" spring. i think the short springs arent a good idea because of the short range of movement.
so thats whats nice about cutting the perch off. you get way further down the shock.

i can provide part numbers for the springs (Qa1 10-250) but i made all the other parts on a lathe.
i think you could replicate this the right way by purchasing decent slip on collars and struts or inserts etc.

the tophat spring locator i made seems like it may be hard to find from somewhere
and from my experience is what you need to make a diy coilover correctly.
One to house the top side of the spring, and two, to seat against the bottom of the bearing in the strut mounts properly.
letting a 2.5" spring just rest where it may on an oem upper spring seat doesn't seem very brilliant to me.
since they were designed for a way wider spring like 5" or something and aren't centered either.

first i cut off the factory spring perch.
Image
then i trimmed it real close the factory weld
to get the lowest mounting point possible
and be able to utilize the weld to hold my slip on coilover and not have to weld to a pressurized shock.
Image
then i machined a tube to tightly slip over the shock body
and a ring i could weld to the new slip on tube for holding the spring
at the desired height. it is not welded yet in picture
Image
Image
Image
Image
next i started on an upper spring hat that would sit against the underside
of the bearing in strut mount or camber plate if you had those.
i started out with laser cut disc we use at work to dish out for candle cups on chandeliers
Image
then i had to get creative to form it to a conical shape for clearance under the strut mount
so with this 60ton press
Image
and this ring and ball as a jig
Image
Image
i was able to come up with this shape
Image
Image
Image
after welding in a little more mass into the center hole to seat against the upper bearing
and slide over the threaded portion of the shock shaft and then truing it up on the lathe
to make sure it was even and had parallel sides top and bottom
i had this
Image
then i welded on a collar to index the spring below the hat
Image
Image
here is how it looks all mocked up on the strut
first without the strut mount and then with it
just remember the collar ring for the bottom of the spring is not welded to the lower sleeve yet
i was going to determine its placement when its on the car to set the ride height.
think non adjustable ride height. i mean once its set why would you move it right?
one more thing to come loose
that was my thought for this experiment ha ha
Image
Image
Image

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Last edited by Keane on Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:20 pm 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
here is the final product with a coat of flashy red paint
they are bling coilovers now :D

its just the front so you can see the rear is still stock height.
my guess is that its a 1.5-2 inch drop the way i set it up.
it actually sits about how it was when stock but no longer scrubs the tires.
which was the 1.5-2 lower but i think my stock springs were really sagged out or some wierd swap maybe cuz it did sit about like this.

overall impression:
i like the height, obviously its under damped since they are wore out stock shocks.
it feels like the spring dont stop bouncing quick enough but it doesnt bottom out so its not too low.
spring firmness is good though with the 250lb spring. a bit stiffer than stock but not bone jarring at all, nothing like an after market coilover with really high rates. i think that it is probably a great street spring rate.
so add a good strut or insert and i think it would be a lowered sporty and comfortable daily driver suspension.
especially an insert that can handle lower ride heights ie: shorter stroke.

i know there has been many ideas on the topic but hopefully this another way to get there


this shows the two areas i still needed to weld
Image
and now complete ready for install
Image
and on the car now
Image
Image
Image

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:40 am 
Offline
Some call me a god

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:50 pm
Posts: 1219
Location: Htown, TX
Very cool setup, I like it. The spring rates throw me off a little though. Stock springs are right at 100, I would have thought 250 springs would be super stiff? I was thinking about going the coilover route, but decided I keep it simple and use lowering springs.


Last edited by fastvtgsx on Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:37 am 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 503
Location: tampa
good to see this. been wanting to weld custom perches on shocks for a while now. theorized it would be okay with oil filled shock. but possible bad idea with gas charged.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:42 pm 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
Quote:
Very cool setup, I like it. The spring rates throw me off a little though. Stock springs are right at 100, I would have thought 250 springs would be super stiff? I was thinking about going the coilover route, but decided I keep it summit and use lowering springs.
i agree it seems off. i did exactly that same math like you when i was considering what to buy. but i figure the spring rate numbers for oem style wide springs and 2.5" coilover style springs must not be apples to apples?
maybe something to do with their geometry when compressing to a coil bind situation?

along your thought process for choosing a rate (100lb stock) i even first bought a 9" long 180lb spring.
but im serious when i put the weight of the car on the spring, it was obvious it wasn't going to work, by how much it compressed
it was almost fully compressed it never would have been able to take bumps. so i knew i had to go stiffer
i just arbitrarily guessed that about 250lb would be right. its probably about as soft as you can go with that style of spring

now consider all your cheapo complete coilovers like ksport, tein megan, etc all use crazy rates like 400lb- 600lb on a 2.5" style spring
those are super stiff. like great for ultimate autocross but terrible on street roads.
so i would assume a 250lb spring is pretty soft in a 2.5" style since its easily half the rate those companies use.

its really not very stiff. a little stiffer than stock but not a lot. you can still stand outside and push on the fender and the car will readily go up and down. ive tried that with coilover companies above and its like pushing down on a boulder, no movement at all. if that makes sense

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:48 pm 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
Quote:
good to see this. been wanting to weld custom perches on shocks for a while now. theorized it would be okay with oil filled shock. but possible bad idea with gas charged.
exactly my thought. i loved the idea of being able to put a few tacks on the factory welded perch ring and stay off the body itself. plus
its just to retain the threaded collar from clunking up and down. the spring and weight of the car will keep it mostly pressed down hard on the little lip of weld and factory perch i left on it. you could probably even get away with no welds. i think the ground control stuff and ebay slip on coilover sleeves do just that, no welding

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:05 pm 
Offline
The happy administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:20 pm
Posts: 5583
Location: Wisconsin
You guys have to take into account the diameter of the spring, if you straightened it, a bigger diameter has more length and therefore more resistance at a softer rate simply because there's more "spring" to disperse the load. When you go to a smaller diameter, you have to go to either thicker wire or go to a longer coil (no room).

Very nice fab work btw!

_________________
Had a:
1991 Eagle Summit ES Hatchback - 4g15 12v 5spd
1991 Dodge Colt -4g15 12v 4spd
Have a:
1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass - 468BBO TH350
Round 3:
1990 Dodge Colt-4G63T 5spd


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:45 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 11:13 am
Posts: 63
Location: Nothern California, 95066
So we know how much our cars weight on each end:

http://www.4g61t.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 78#p300520

figuring fitting spring rates is pretty obvious(compress x travel), the only wild factor would be the type of shocks used and their rebound capability>right?

Also real coilovers would let you balance the car out, so it weights the same of each end (unless you are into pre-load type of ish)

_________________
Got 1970 SS ?


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:36 am 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
howdy, im going to make a real effort to update my build and breathe some new life into the forum.
so over the last year i built a few things.
new garage (cant find my construction photos but i built the whole thing myself)
my goal was to match the house as best as i could, i even built the doors from scratch
Image
Image
Image

And the colts new home
Image

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:17 am 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
ha i did find the build photos.
i know its not car stuff exactly but im happy to have a place to show off my efforts. especially to guys who know what it means to the car hobby to have a garage, so thanks for looking at these. i was very fortunate to have the time to build this.
a garage or shopspace has been a dream of mine since i was 11 years old.
it took me about a year to build just piece by piece from the concrete to the roof with very little help from friends and family. its still just a shell inside. but awesome and useful

i picked out a couple pics that show the build without being to boring
then we'll get back to the car stuff.

retaining wall and basement foundation
Image
Image
Image
yes there will be a bathroom :lol:
Image
framing
Image
sheeting
Image
what was the angle of the dangle?
Image
view from the roof
Image
siding
Image

best Friends Forever
Image

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Last edited by Keane on Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:53 pm 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
obviously you guys loved the garage build from the rave reviews lol!

anyhow here's something more car related.
built this right before the kid was born(3 years ago...dang), knowing i would never get the time again.
harbor freight sells em cheap but this is a better memory for me


i built an engine stand at work a couple years ago that now im finally going to put into use
i started rebuilding a 2.0 for the colt.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:05 am 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9445
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
The rave reviews get lost in our heads sometimes!

I'm posting one now .... so fresh and so clean clean!


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:13 am 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
just teasing, but thanks eagle

the place is pretty dead but im going to try and keep content coming

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:53 pm 
Offline
CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 552
Location: Astoria OR
To further my attempt to breath life into the forum im going to share my engine rebuild

i picked up a 4g63 longblock and i am going to rebuild a motor for the colt.
its out of a 1ga talon and it suffered from a spun balance shaft bearing (as i found out from the tear down)
im going to describe this rebuild in detail because that what i enjoy the most when reading other people builds projects.
so prepare for lengthy post :rolleyes:

specs on dead core:
I dissasembled the engine and miced the crank, rods, and bores.
the block needs a bore because of rust pitting but the crank is good and will get a polish. (there are stains on the crank journals probably from sitting for 10 years? machinist said its all good and will polish up nicely. no scratches, spun bearings etc.

the cyl head had 3-4 bent valves and associated cracked valve guides. when the balance shaft bearing spun it actually came out of the journal and the shaft was wobbling around in the journal. so i assume it in turn caused the timing belt to break hence the bent valves.
Im going to use another N/A head to avoid repairing the cracked guides for now.

This rebuild is going to budget minded foremost so oem style rebuild with arp hardware as the only mod.
I don't have years of experience with these cars so im interested in learning firsthand how durable a "stock" engine is.
im hoping to set the motor up with the best potential with oem parts.

My rebuild plan for the bottom end:
bore .020 over
new oem style 1g turbo pistons/nippon rings
im going to run the loose side of clearances on pist to wall and ring gaps in hopes of gaining the most potential for power on stock pistons
piston to wall .002
ring gap first ring .019- second ring .022 (really just an average from massive internet reading? hope its good)
polished oem crank
r&r'd oem rods
acl bearings throughout
arp crank, rod, and head studs
felpro composite headgasket
and a balance shaft delete

top end:
valve job
reuse all valves springs etc
new stem seals
resurface

A couple mods to the head and block mostly all seen on the jafromobile videos:
polished up the oil channel in the front of the block.
oil port mod to the tear drop.
i spent a lot of time copying jafro's cylinder head port/polish techniques.
not hogging anything out but really smoothing and polishing the runners and the transition into the bowls(cleaning up the castings basically).
only change to shape was narrowing the divider on the exhaust side.
left the floor rough on the intake but polished the roof as well as transition to the bowl.
semi cleaned up and polished the combustion chamber as well.

also opened the stud hole that feeds the tear drop port
to maintain the clearances of an oem head bolt with the not undercut arp head studs.
Basically there is .030 clearance btween the stud hole and an oem headbolt.
The arp stud is .030 thicker than oem head bolt so i drilled the stud hole .030 bigger.
Ihave no idea if that matters much? i never read about someone doing that or having problems.
It seemed to make sense to me so thats what i did.

Things may change as i go along but thats the plan.
love to hear anyones thoughts on the above subjects.
Thanks for reading :supz:

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

All times are UTC-05:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited