4g61t.org

Specializing in the 3g CSM
It is currently Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:08 am

All times are UTC-05:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 4 5 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:17 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9377
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Okay, it's time to rehash some of the facts about the only big brake kit available for CSM's, as engineered by rallyguy.

Wilwood Dynalite 4 piston calipers
275 mm rotors drilled to match 4x114.3 bolt pattern
Adapters to allow the calipers to mount to the knuckle
Spacer plates that are hub centric, so rims will clear the calipers

Pads that fit the Dynalite caliper:
Model number
Pad compound
Street, light track, race duty

Brake system on your car:
Booster
Master cylinder
Proportioning valve
Brake hoses (rubber or stainless braided Teflon)
Rear brake setup

Rims used:
Brand
Model name
Diameter
Offset
Bolt pattern

I want to know if the car seems be front brake heavy now.
What parts have worn out or created noise?
Does your brake pedal travel too far for your liking due to piston travel to fill the calipers to proper pad contact pressures?
Which calipers are the Dynalites in the Wilwood product catalogue - the manufacturer part name and number?

Any other issues you may have had.

This information will go into a thread which will be archived once the appropriate information has been collected, so as to benefit anyone using this kit.
There will be other information concerning the other brake upgrade options, Expo/Galant/Diamante concoctions, but this thread will give people the basics behind the 4 piston per front caliper upgrade path. Hopefully we have enough people still using these to this day.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:12 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:26 am
Posts: 79
Location: omaha NE
This Is one of the best mods for a csm. A real night and day difference. I have an original mirage turbo that had bigger brakes than the regular non turbo mirage colt. And at the 400 and up hp range the car did NOT feel safe. The brakes made a HUGE difference. I have ran gvr4 wheels with spacers on 205 tires. And a set of enkei rct3 wheels I now have 235 4017 without the spacers and fits fine. I did have a leak in my master cylinder so I changed to 3000gt VR4 master. Bolts right on with zero mods and is bigger. I think it fits better with bigger 4 pistons. I still believe that the Wilwood brakes even without the 3000 gt master is a almost mandatory upgrade to anyone making any real power. I rode in a friends car with 500whp colt with stock solid rotor brakes and when brake boosting the engine would over power the brakes and the car would just take off once boost hit . Really scary!
I have had the kit on my car for 10+ years.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:58 pm 
Offline
Some call me a god
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 1154
Location: Anderson, IN
I'm getting a very similar set up for my car, definitely interested on how they perform. I was going to hold off installing them until I have some more cash just in case I needed to upgrade any other parts.

_________________
92 Colt GL 4g63t + AWD swap
00 Mirage LS


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:16 am 
Offline
Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:53 am
Posts: 360
Location: Duluth, MN
Wilwood Dynalite 4 piston calipers
275 mm rotors drilled to match 4x114.3 bolt pattern
Adapters to allow the calipers to mount to the knuckle
Spacer plates that are hub centric, so rims will clear the calipers

Pads that fit the Dynalite caliper:
Model number - Wilwood 15Q-6824K polymatrix Q pads
Pad compound - ??? unknown
Street, light track, race duty

Brake system on your car:
Booster - Elantra brake booster
Master cylinder - Elantra
Proportioning valve - sotck csm from a 1.5 with rear drum
Brake hoses (rubber or stainless braided Teflon) - SS Goodyear
Rear brake setup - Turbo disc with 1g rear calipers

Rims used:
Brand - Konig
Model name - Theory
Diameter - 15
Offset - ???
Bolt pattern - 4 x 114.3

I love this setup, could probably use some different proportioning valve, but it feels good. It does seem a bit noisy, squeaky brakes. I have also noticed that there is a clunk when you first apply the brakes even a little, I'm pretty sure the pads move a little in the caliper. Otherwise its the one front bolt on my lower control arm that is loose. Brake pedal feel is firm but very nice overall, not too much travel and you can feel the road better IMHO. The more I press the pedal the better they just work!


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:06 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:26 am
Posts: 79
Location: omaha NE
I don't think I had a clunk that I ever remember. I have the street compound now. I had a set of track only pads ( "D" I think) they stopped the car NOW but were super noisy. They would spark so much at night that a few people flagged me down to tell me my car was on fire. They also killed the rotors; I had rusty gvr4 rims from the metal they threw. Finally they lasted less the 600miles. Both new pads and rotors. But they would work no matter how hot you got them and would pop your eyes out of your head when you leaned on them.

The street pads are the way to go. Had them in for years and still work great.

I bought my kit from Chris Burns directly.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:30 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:29 pm
Posts: 166
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Who the hell is this rallykid, or rallyguy, or Wilwood guy anyway??? He must be cool. Haha I just logged on after a former customer asked me some questions.

Since the original info seems to be long gone I wanted to cover a few key safety issues cuz I want nothing more than everyone to be safe out there. That is the purpose of the kit in the first place so please pay attention. This seems like a good place to post a reminder though so here goes.

First: DON'T seat the lugs into the hub by putting a nut on them and tightening them. There has been more than one case of these lugs snapping (one in my kit, and a few on rally cars) and in every case they were installed this way. Have them pressed in. Use a big C clamp, be creative, but dont tighten a nut onto them. It takes WAY more torque to seat them then you would ever put on an aluminum wheel and the lugs dont seem to like it.

Second: The spacer. It serves a real purpose and it isnt to clear wheels/brakes. The original colt, and/or turbo colt hubs have the rotor behind the hub. For that reason, the hubcentric lip is only tall enough to engage a wheel that is up against the hub. A big advantage of this kit is that the rotors fit outside the hub and can be changed easily. However, the rotor thickness takes up valuable hubcentric lip height. The spacer is only there to create a new, full height hubcentric lip to engage the wheel. Unfortunately, this means the rotors had to be custom machined, but so be it when it comes to doing things right. Technically, the kit would work without the spacer, but this would put the vehicle load onto the lugs. Now you can read a million threads on hubcentric vs lug loads, but the fact is that this kit duplicates what this vehicle came with so please use it.

Third: When I sold these, I included all grade 8 hardware to attach the caliper to the bracket (had to match the SAE caliper specs). Use the original bolts to attach the bracket to the car as they are also a metric 10 bolt if I recall.

Easiest way to install the kit is to simply cut the rotors off. I used a plasma cutter, but a torch would work just as easily thoughbeit a little messier. I assume a handful of cutoff wheels would also work if you are the patient type. If I recall, the plasma cutter did the job in about 3 minutes. Doing this removes the need for new bearings/seals, and a press since the new rotors fit on the outside of the hub.

Also, as a general statement. Track or aggressive pads will squeal, and they wont work as good as a street pad will if you are driving on the street. Pads are made to operate at a given temperature so running a track pad at a street temp means it wont work as good as a street pad at a street temp. Remember that is a general statement and there are all kinds of pads and all kinds of operating temps out there. But in general, buy the pads for the vehicle's use. The cool part about wilwoods is that you can swap pads in about 3 minutes after the wheel is removed so it is pretty easy to drive to a track day and swap pads, or do it the night before. You arent stuck.

And lastly, No, I do not have any more of these kits, sorry. I made these more than 10 years ago and I do not plan to make any more.

Also, lastly, lastly. If anyone remakes these, note that I used all 7075 aluminum. Not the common 6061. It costs more, but is much stronger!

Happy Trails


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:38 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9377
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Thank you for that!

Stated like a true engineer/technician.

I am going to add some pad ordering information, as well as information for parts available to rebuild the calipers that I receive with my kit purchase (second hand not direct from rallyguy)
These calipers include the proper spacers in the center to allow the caliper to fit over the width of the rotors.

Wilwood Billet Dynalite Caliper part #120-5081
Link current at time of post: http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Caliper ... o=120-5081
Price ~$170 US per caliper (not left or right dependent due to multiple bleeders)
Color - Black
Finish - Black Anodize

Rotor Compatibility
Rotor Width(In): 0.38
Maximum Rotor Width(In): 0.38
Minimum Rotor Width(In): 0.25
Maximum Rotor Diameter(In): 13.06
Minimum Rotor Diameter(In): 10
Brake Pad Specifications
Brake Pad Type 1: 7812
Total Pad Area (in²): 6.36
Total Pad Volume (in³): 2.1

Piston Specifications
Piston 1 Bore(In): 1.75
Piston 2 Bore(In): 1.75
Total Piston Area (in²): 4.80

Mounting Specifications
Mount Type: Lug
Mount Side: Universal
Mount Center(In): 5.25
Mount Hole Size(In): 0.39
Mount Height(In): 2.03
Inlet Thread Size: 1/8-27 NPT


71XX plate 7112 Pad sets:

BP-40 150-12243K High-Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $110.30
Gator 150-2391K Medium Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $71.22
BP-10 150-8850K Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $44.93
BP-20 150-9413K Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $58.41
BP-30 150-9863K High-Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $120.99
PolyMatrix A 15A-5734K High-Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $111.62
PolyMatrix B 15B-3991K High-Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $113.73
PolyMatrix C 15C-4415K High-Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $119.72
PolyMatrix E 15E-6096K Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $86.22
PolyMatrix H 15H-8291K High-Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $112.58
PolyMatrix Q 15Q-6824K Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $88.82

Bedded-In Pads - by Compounds

PolyMatrix A 15A-5734K-B High-Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $174.62
PolyMatrix B 15B-3991K-B High-Temperature Racing Pads 4 Pads $176.73
PolyMatrix E 15E-6096K-B Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $149.22


Rebuild parts listing:
O-Ring Kit: 130-2655
Replacement Dust Boot: **does not use dust boots!**
Replacement Piston 1: 200-7528
Replacement Piston 2: 200-7528
Cross-Over O-Ring Kit: 130-10540
Wear Plate L/H: 300-5875
Wear Plate R/H: 300-5875
Pad Retainer: 180-0054
Bleed Screw Kit: 220-0627

Also note that the 7812 pad plates (not the material, both types appear to have the same pad shape/size) are shorter than the aforementioned 71XX/7112 plates.


These are the 7812 pads available at the time of this posting:

Compound Application Quantity Price Part No / More Info Purchase
CM -Composite Metallic High-Temp Racing Pads 4 Pads $150.81 150-10020K
BP-30 High-Temp Racing Pads 4 Pads $116.88 150-11735K
BP-40 High-Temp Racing Pads 4 Pads $131.18 150-12247K

*** BP-10 Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $44.93 150-9136K
*** BP-20 Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $61.34 150-9418K

PolyMatrix A High-Temp Racing Pads 4 Pads $134.91 15A-9835K
PolyMatrix B High-Temp Racing Pads 4 Pads $133.68 15B-9836K
PolyMatrix E Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $96.44 15E-9837K
PolyMatrix H High-Temp Racing Pads 4 Pads $144.05 15H-10644K
PolyMatrix Q Street Performance / Racing Pads 4 Pads $110.24 15Q-10385K

Consider using BP-10 pads for the street - low dust, longer life
Consider using BP-20 pads for the street/track - Coefficent of friction (Cf) is almost flat curve with temp increase but aggressive and higher temp than BP-10, less Cf from cold start!
Consider using BP-30 pads for the track (racing other than drag, these are meant to brought up to temp and then operate in that range) Rotor killers for a street car!!!
You could use a track pad compound to clean rotors, and re-install a street pad under certain circumstances - see Wilwoods literature on this.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:57 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9377
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Compound Sheets - see page 2
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl227.pdf

SmartPad BP-10
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakeP ... ound=BP-10

SmartPad BP-20
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakeP ... ound=BP-20

SmartPad BP-30
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakeP ... ound=BP-30


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:47 pm 
Offline
CSM Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:43 am
Posts: 580
Location: FRANCE
Good information here !
Thanks you for sharing :D


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:13 pm 
Offline
CSM Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 7:00 pm
Posts: 2191
Location: SoCal and Wisconsin
What rotors work for this?

I just tried to swap on new gvr4 rotors and they won't work, the center bore is too small and the hubcentric spacer doesn't fit

_________________
90 Mirage LIL EVO 940awhp
14 Audi R8 V10
07 LS460L, 01 LS430
13 Tundra TRD S/C, 96 T100
96 Land Cruiser GT35R


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:18 pm 
Offline
CSM Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 7:00 pm
Posts: 2191
Location: SoCal and Wisconsin
Image

_________________
90 Mirage LIL EVO 940awhp
14 Audi R8 V10
07 LS460L, 01 LS430
13 Tundra TRD S/C, 96 T100
96 Land Cruiser GT35R


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:56 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:29 pm
Posts: 166
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Quote:
Unfortunately, this means the rotors had to be custom machined, but so be it when it comes to doing things right.
It is the GVR4 rotor, just needs to be custom machined to open the centerbore. Hate to say it, but it had to be done to be correct.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:01 pm 
Offline
CSM Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 7:00 pm
Posts: 2191
Location: SoCal and Wisconsin
Ah that's right. It's been awhile, these are the same rotors I've had since I bought the kit :)

_________________
90 Mirage LIL EVO 940awhp
14 Audi R8 V10
07 LS460L, 01 LS430
13 Tundra TRD S/C, 96 T100
96 Land Cruiser GT35R


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:23 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:29 pm
Posts: 166
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Quote:
Ah that's right. It's been awhile, these are the same rotors I've had since I bought the kit :)
You should make a little more power to wear those brakes out a little faster.... :lol:


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:22 pm 
Offline
CSM Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 7:00 pm
Posts: 2191
Location: SoCal and Wisconsin
I've always been using the 7112 pads. I noticed this thread listed the 7812 pads. The 7812 pads are 2.21 tall vs 2.38" tall for the 7112 pads.

_________________
90 Mirage LIL EVO 940awhp
14 Audi R8 V10
07 LS460L, 01 LS430
13 Tundra TRD S/C, 96 T100
96 Land Cruiser GT35R


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 4 5 Next

All times are UTC-05:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited