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 Post subject: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:00 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood
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Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:25 am
Posts: 352
Location: Denver, Co
Here's the first in the World Build 1.8L 4g67/G4CN with forged pistons and rods:
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I decided to build this guy since it was in perfect shape when I found it and I always liked how beefy these are between each cylinder, all of that thanks to the tiny bore of 81.5 mm (even smaller than the 1.6L)...
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As some of you know finding forged pistons for 4g67 it's almost impossible since this engine was only available for like 3 years in America, plus we only got them on Hyundai Elantras, so companies decided not to make anything for them at all. That's when I started looking over some other 1.8s with plenty aftermarket support and I knew Honda would be one of them, the B18A/B or B18C had a bore size of 81 mm, so I would have to look into 020 oversize pistons which is 81.5 mm, then I had to make sure the wrist pin size were the same as the 6 Bolt 4G6X, so I could fit Honda Pistons with the Mitsu Rods and indeed it was 21 mm!

I checked Strokes just to see if that would affect the way these pistons would sit on my 4g67, difference was minimum so everything was fine until now:

B18A/B Stroke = 89 mm

4G67 Stroke = 88 mm (Same as 4g63, so Rod Aftermarket support wouldn't be a problem here)

B18C Stroke = 87.2 mm

Obviously I was being the Guinea pig here so I got a set of Wiseco 8.3:1 at first thinking that they would fit fine
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My first problem was that they wouldn't fit without machining the rod to clear the wrist pin area
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Manley vs Stock
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Later when I tested them on block they were shorter than Mitsubishi pistons, at this way compression ratio would be too low, even lower than 7.8:1 I would say, so I needed to go big on that, but before getting something else I would had to sell these Wisecos first:
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Months later I got a pretty good deal on some Arias 12.5:1 and that was my final choice
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Some Ceramic Coating on top wouldn't hurt anything...
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Final Results
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I went with the 2g style 2.0L head since I will be using the Evo Intake manifold
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For the record I sold my Running 4g63 Engine to a local friend that needed one for his 2g, so now this engine sits on my Colt...

_________________
91' Mitsubishi Colt 4G67T FWD "The Minion" - 12.26@118
94' Mitsubishi Galant GS 4g63 Swap "White Unicorn"
95' Eagle Talon Tsi FWD "Ernie's car" - 13.92@104 *Rest In Parts*


Last edited by Moulin13 on Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:56 pm 
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Some call me a god
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 8:53 pm
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Location: Seattle, WA
Did you check valve to piston clearances sense I'm sure the Honda and Mitsu heads don't have the same valve geometry? If you did check it was there much of a difference?

_________________
89 Mirage Billet 20g 63t 12.4@120 417whp 400wtq @ English Racing.
89 Colt GT E316g
06 Silverado SS
07 ZX6R


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:25 am
Posts: 352
Location: Denver, Co
By the way these pistons sit and with the shape of them they don't even reach the valves at TDC so I guess it's a not an interference engine anymore...

l feel this engine better on throttle response and to me it feels strong under 25 psi, It doesn't feel weaker than my 2.0 thats for sure

_________________
91' Mitsubishi Colt 4G67T FWD "The Minion" - 12.26@118
94' Mitsubishi Galant GS 4g63 Swap "White Unicorn"
95' Eagle Talon Tsi FWD "Ernie's car" - 13.92@104 *Rest In Parts*


Last edited by Moulin13 on Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 7504
Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Very cool man! Super clean too.

_________________
89 2 Door Montero V6/Manual
95 Eagle Summit DL coupe
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:44 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Cleveland / D.C.
Awesome love seeing different stuff like this. Good luck with it and keep us updated

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'89 Summit Sedan AWD - 9.1 at 157
'92 Evo 1
'10 CTS-V


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:55 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 550
Location: Astoria OR
This is awesome man. I also like that you are doing something different. Its also a great effort on your part to do all the experimenting and trial and error for others to learn from. Your info on the korean 4g63s was great too

i love watching your builds. I watched your colt go from 0 to hero at over 400hp. All with a chinese turbo

one thing ive been learning about, from slowly building my engine, is piston to wall clearances.
so i want to ask your opinions on my thoughts below

It looks like you used the factory bore on your 4g67 block. And since the arias piston at .020 over
are still at 81.5 bore size im guessing thats what you did.

So im wondering how you feel about your piston to wall clearances?
I assume the 4g67 oem non turbo piston was well under .002 i think oem spec is .0012-.002
and forged pistons like you have generally call for more clearance because of expansion right?
something like .003-004.

think you may have any issues?
I read later that you are already pushing 25psi through this new motor so it looks like its all working great
i always wonder if all those little things matter so much, and how much you can get away with on diy no machining builds.

great work :supz:

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:25 am
Posts: 352
Location: Denver, Co
I'm going to be very honest I didn't check the piston to wall clearance, yes these Arias were 81.5 mm so that means STD pistons for me and 020 over for B18, what I did check was the ring end gap and I did 18 on top and bottom ring 23, the bottom was already on 23 so I didn't even bother with this, I don't why but the ring end gap limits were higher on the 1.8s for the bottom rings than the 2.0

The other detail that I couldn't find out was how the CR would be, pretty much because the LACK OF TOOLS to do this, pistons are 12.5:1 tops when they are on the B series but here on the 4g67 sit way lower as you can see on the pictures, also I'm using the 2.0 head so that will lower it even more...

_________________
91' Mitsubishi Colt 4G67T FWD "The Minion" - 12.26@118
94' Mitsubishi Galant GS 4g63 Swap "White Unicorn"
95' Eagle Talon Tsi FWD "Ernie's car" - 13.92@104 *Rest In Parts*


Last edited by Moulin13 on Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:52 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9366
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Your pistons (new ones pictured), don't sit high enough or close enough to the deck surface when they are at TDC. There has to be a much smaller distance to the deck/head.

The pistons you are using are made for a head with a much larger dome in the combustion chamber.

I like what you are trying to do, but there are some things missing from this process.

I don't want to see you do this and find out things the hard way, that some things aren't right.

IF you put it together, then only do it once, because everything is measured out and spec'd out multiple times.

Have you talked to Steven or a local machine shop about this setup, as pictured?


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:41 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9366
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Squish band per this: https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/squishcalc1.html

Magnus high compression piston design:

http://magnusmotorsports.com/products/e ... 3-pistons/

The end of this post also links a very serious member on many forums, linking Magnus as a great source for custom pistons.

I suggest making this the most expensive part of your build, because I can't see it coming out on the cheap in this regard.

http://highboostforum.com/forum/archive ... 17311.html


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood
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Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:25 am
Posts: 352
Location: Denver, Co
Quote:
Your pistons (new ones pictured), don't sit high enough or close enough to the deck surface when they are at TDC. There has to be a much smaller distance to the deck/head.

The pistons you are using are made for a head with a much larger dome in the combustion chamber.

I like what you are trying to do, but there are some things missing from this process.

I don't want to see you do this and find out things the hard way, that some things aren't right.

IF you put it together, then only do it once, because everything is measured out and spec'd out multiple times.

Have you talked to Steven or a local machine shop about this setup, as pictured?
Have you seen how the factory SRT4 pistons sit at TDC? They don't reach the top of the deck like our 4g6X does, so I don't think is going to be a problem there:
Image

Like I said the engine is running without issues right now, I wasn't expecting to see Honda pistons sit perfect on a Mitsubishi block anyways, the main goal was 4g67 with forged low compression pistons, the first ones I bought were 8.3:1 for B Series and they weren't reaching the top, so the CR was going to be way too low on 4g67, then I sold these and bought the Arias which are 12.5:1 for B series, I bought them knowing that they wouldn't reach the top so the CR was going to be lower on the 4g67 but not that low as the first ones...

I wasn't looking to pay $1k/$2k for custom 1.8L pistons for the 4g67, that's why I decided to take a shortcut there finding another source, afterall I just paid $350 for the ARIAS, sometimes you gotta think out the ball...

_________________
91' Mitsubishi Colt 4G67T FWD "The Minion" - 12.26@118
94' Mitsubishi Galant GS 4g63 Swap "White Unicorn"
95' Eagle Talon Tsi FWD "Ernie's car" - 13.92@104 *Rest In Parts*


Last edited by Moulin13 on Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:36 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 550
Location: Astoria OR
Thanks for the info on ptw clearances and ring gaps.
its great to know all the details of your build.

And you are currently running and boosting the car as we speak which is really cool and goes to show
that engines will perform with unorthodox combinations

nice work keep us updated of how the engine works out for you.
im guessing you will dyno and track test your car like you have done with the old setup too?

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:59 am 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood
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Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:25 am
Posts: 352
Location: Denver, Co
Quote:
Thanks for the info on ptw clearances and ring gaps.
its great to know all the details of your build.

And you are currently running and boosting the car as we speak which is really cool and goes to show
that engines will perform with unorthodox combinations

nice work keep us updated of how the engine works out for you.
im guessing you will dyno and track test your car like you have done with the old setup too?

Your welcome and yeah that's the plan, dyno test first then track, btw this is not the first time that someone uses hybrid combinations, I have seen 2jzGTE pistons on our engines, also I spoke with a old man long time ago and he told me about how he did a 4g64 with SRT4 pistons, so I just added one extra to the list...

_________________
91' Mitsubishi Colt 4G67T FWD "The Minion" - 12.26@118
94' Mitsubishi Galant GS 4g63 Swap "White Unicorn"
95' Eagle Talon Tsi FWD "Ernie's car" - 13.92@104 *Rest In Parts*


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 7504
Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Have you thought about doing an actual compression test on this engine to see if it's higher/lower than stock or that of a 4g63t? It won't tell you your exact CR but it will tell you something.

_________________
89 2 Door Montero V6/Manual
95 Eagle Summit DL coupe
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:28 pm 
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Some call me a god
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 8:53 pm
Posts: 1494
Location: Seattle, WA
Interested in compression test numbers too!

_________________
89 Mirage Billet 20g 63t 12.4@120 417whp 400wtq @ English Racing.
89 Colt GT E316g
06 Silverado SS
07 ZX6R


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 Post subject: Re: Built 4g67/G4CN
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Some call me a god

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 2:31 am
Posts: 1789
Location: Commerce City, Co
I have had Arias make me three sets of custom Pistons. Granted they were all forms 4G63 but, even with .230" wall wrist pins and upgraded Hastings rings, I have never paid more than $650 for a set and had to wait for more than 6-8 weeks for them to be made. Not sure where guys get these outrageous prices for custom Pistons, they don't cost anymore than normal usually. We bought a set for our Mirage last year so I would like to think this scenario still stands true.

_________________
1985 Mitsubishi Cordia
Build in progress


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