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 Post subject: EVO8 ECU in stock CSM
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Hey fellows,
I made myself an wiring adapter to plug in the 4 plug Evo8 ECU.
Working so far, but the MPI relay is not closing. Pin 38 (evo) goes to 63+66 in csm harness. Measured today pin38 - no volts coming out there on ignition. if i close the relay manually the car is firing up - can som1 help me?

EDIT: CSM ECU is working fine, regular starting - so MPI relay itself is good


Last edited by vicore on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am 
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Which diagram did you use? Here's the one I refer to when I do this swap, and it's proven 100% correct :).
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tchaad/EVO_DSM%20pinout.xls

Also, on the patch harnesses I've made, I only connect EVO 38 to DSM 63. I leave DSM 66 out of the loop. My own colt runs great on the harness I made from the above link. The factory Evo 8 tech manual says that pin 38 should be 12v with the ignition OFF, and less than 1v with the ignition ON. 66 & 63 connect to each other later on in the CSM engine harness anyway.

_________________
Early 2000's: 1992 Summit sedan - 14.1 @ 100.9mph w/ 155/80 13s
2012: 1989 Dodge Colt GT Turbo - 14.9 @ 100mph, 10psi/s16G


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:30 am 
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Figured out a diagram myself with the two electric manuals - and the result is quite similar. Only differences are EVO pin 6 and 86. whereas i am not going to wire in the egr cause it will be deleted anyways.

I will wire up the speed sensor hope this will solve my mfi-problem.

Maybe worth to mention - i got the stock maf and everything else stock - for now ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:43 am 
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Good luck! :)

I like this swap, as it works REALLY well. My fuel trims are down to ~1%, and it idles sooooooooo smoothly. I'm using 450cc injectors and a 501 MAF (3G eclipse), but that's about it.

Be VERY careful though, the stock Evo ignition map is VERY aggressive down low. I'm running a 13G on my 1.6, with 10 psi, and I hit the 120 load area of the map at max boost. This puts me below 100 load for quite a while, and the timing is HIGH there. First tests had me getting 34* at WOT! It knocked a bit ;).

_________________
Early 2000's: 1992 Summit sedan - 14.1 @ 100.9mph w/ 155/80 13s
2012: 1989 Dodge Colt GT Turbo - 14.9 @ 100mph, 10psi/s16G


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:53 am 
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Okay so you cannot confirm that its a general problem with the CSMs and 90DSMs?

I consider to switch the relay by hand just to get it work :(


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 Post subject: Re: EVO8 ECU in 3g CSM
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Relay working - broken wire near the middle ECU plug. Sometimes its hard tp find though.

Som1 has the MAF settings for me for MD125922 (stock 1g MAF).
Most infos are for 609 2g maf :(
i am using 96532706


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:28 pm 
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You're using the live map ROM, nice. I haven't played with that one yet :).

Here's all the info on the 1G MAF, although there isn't any smoothing table identified in the stock 1G code, so use the EVO 8 one to start.

MAF Adder: 64 (if this isn't defined in your XML, add this code to it: <table name="MAF Adder" category="Global Fuel Settings" address="1513" type="1D" scaling="uint8"/>

MAF Scalar/size: 257.7

MAF Compensation:
133.00
133.00
168.00
182.00
190.00
195.00
200.00
204.00
208.00
212.00
215.00
218.00
220.00
227.00
230.00
232.00
235.00
234.00
234.00
232.00
231.00

There isn't any defined MAF Filtering either, so stick with the EVO 8 values. You could try the 2G ones, if you'd like.

MAF Baro/IAT compensation:

1.31 1.31 1.34 1.39
1.40 1.38 1.38 1.38
1.37 1.37 1.37 1.37
1.37 1.37 1.37 1.37
1.37 1.37 1.40 1.40
1.41 1.40 1.37 1.33
1.36 1.37 1.37 1.42
1.42 1.45 1.41 1.37
1.32 1.33 1.37 1.37

Closed Loop LT control: (although this may be based on the ECU and not a hardware setting. Try these out, but if you run into issue while tuning, set it to the EVO 8 values).
Low-to-mid: 81.12
Mid-to-low: 68.64
Mid-to-high: 143.52
High-to-Mid: 131.04

_________________
Early 2000's: 1992 Summit sedan - 14.1 @ 100.9mph w/ 155/80 13s
2012: 1989 Dodge Colt GT Turbo - 14.9 @ 100mph, 10psi/s16G


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Thanks a lot for your help n values :)

The MAF Comp you wrote is ment to be the MAF Scaling table?
Just asking cause in my ROM the values of the MAF Scaling look like the series you posted as MAF Compensation.
Since i got MAF Scaling+Adder table, can I change the MAF Adder to your posted value and add your MAF Adder to your MAF Comp and subtitute my MAFScaling which includes the adder.

Means my MAFScale(incl Adder):
197
197
232
246
254
259
264
268
272
276
279
282
284
291
294
296
299
298
298
296
295

Should work, right?! ^^

The MAF Baro/IAT compensation values are far from the stock ones, is that alright?

EDIT: everything in stock C58 (1.8L 3g CSM) 4g67


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:06 pm 
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The scaling for that table is incorrect. The MAF Scaling + Adder is ONLY for display purposes. It doesn't change the maf adder in the rom. Change the scaling of that table to MAF Scaling (remove the adder), and add the 'MAF Adder' code to the xml. The values will make sense then.

1G MAF Compensation = EVO MAF Scaling

The IAT/Baro values are for the 1G MAF, so yes, they'll be far from stock.

_________________
Early 2000's: 1992 Summit sedan - 14.1 @ 100.9mph w/ 155/80 13s
2012: 1989 Dodge Colt GT Turbo - 14.9 @ 100mph, 10psi/s16G


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Location: Durham NC
Just curious: What are the benefits of running an evo 8 ecu compared to the stock turbo ecu (on basically a stock 61t)?

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89 Colt GT Turbo - Durham, NC


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:22 am 
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I changed the MAF Adder already, your code for the xml worked well ;)

I changed the Scaling to Airflow8 and the resulting values were close to "your values + your adder" - thats why i thought I should sum these two up and and use these sums. Just wondering cause this would mean that the 1gMAF has ~same scaling as the evoMAF but if I should use your values without the MAFadder added to them, it makes sense of course :)

@jdmhotness: To the benefits: I want to switch to E85 and still have the opportunity to easily switch back to gas. Already have bigger injectors, resistorpack, walbro.... so I now want to get familiar with ECU adjusting:D

If you are referring to your unwritten question: why didn't I go with link? For me it was cheaper and I have no EEPROM ECU.

I already had the Evoscan 1.3U cable - 0$
Harness adapter made of a junk E33Ecu - 0$
Evo ECU 80$


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:06 am 
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Hope you can and would help me again :)

Done everthing so far. But it doesnt start. Spark and fuel are at their place.

Airflow (at starter rpm)
Stock 37Hz @ 218rpm
Evo 25Hz @ 187rpm (why is here starter rpm signicantly lower? sound is the same as stock ; equals 30Hz @ 218rpm)

I thought the Hz number is fix and all the ECU does is converting this number with the parameters set in MAF size, adder and comp/scale (and probably a ton more) :axe:
InjDutyCycl
stock 4,5%
evo 0,36% (but that of course is caused by the wrong airflow)

Another strange thing are the ISC Steps
Stock 16 Steps
Evo 82-83 Steps :-?

All data are from EvoScan.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:21 am 
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I'd start with the mechanical side first. Do you have fuel, do you have spark? Is the immobilizer turned off in the periphery bits as well as the hex? I wouldn't compare logging results, mainly because the DSM and Evo ecus are so different inside that there are likely to be many differences. My own car runs awesomely on the harness I made from the link I shared, and my ISC steps are different than the DSM ecu had them at. The high ISC steps are going to be for startup, and then trickle down to lower numbers. This happens very quickly, where the DSM ecu does it slower/differently.

Focus on the mechanical side first, IMO. Start with the basics.

Wait...are you using the stock 4G61T MAF or the 4G63T MAF? If you're using the 61T MAF...it's NOT the same as a 1G, and the numbers are VASTLY different. I have them as well though.

_________________
Early 2000's: 1992 Summit sedan - 14.1 @ 100.9mph w/ 155/80 13s
2012: 1989 Dodge Colt GT Turbo - 14.9 @ 100mph, 10psi/s16G


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:42 am 
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Mech all done ;)
Spark yes
Fuel yes
Immobilizer periph yes / found that the hex is not important after deactivating in the periphs (EDIT: http://evoecu.logic.net/wiki/Immobilizer_Disabling)
Do you suggest to change the hex as well? If so to what value?

Sometimes while starting to crank it fires little bit up to 400rpm... and falls back to starter rpm

It is the stock MAF - but its the 4g67 in there (stock). 1,8L displacement! ASA says that MAF part number is in some D22s as well. Thats why I assumed it's the 1g stock MAF.

Rechecked:
MD125922 is in the N/A 1gs (1.8L and 2.0L)
MD125924 is for the T/C ones


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:27 am 
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Hmm, ok. I've never checked the MAF of an N/A 4G63, but I can check the hex and see if the values are the same. I imagine they are, although it's tough to say. I've only ever seen one 1.8 DSM in all my years of working on cars, so I'll take your word for it, lol.

I know that the non-turbo MAF is missing a pin though, not sure what function it is. In the past, we've done conversions with the NA wiring harness and added a wire to the ECU for the missing pin.

Do you have a wideband in the car? If so, what is it reading during cranking?

_________________
Early 2000's: 1992 Summit sedan - 14.1 @ 100.9mph w/ 155/80 13s
2012: 1989 Dodge Colt GT Turbo - 14.9 @ 100mph, 10psi/s16G


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