Car hard to start sometimes??

89Mirageman · PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:41 pm

Quote:

as i relocated my batt in the back

That could be an issue there. If there is enough voltage drop from the battery to your starter, it may not provide enough power to turn the starter over. Not likely the issue, but it' worth a look.

I would think if that were the case it would either start or it wouldn't. I can't really see that being an intermittent problem.

Also isn't there a starter relay on these cars? Guess I'll have to dig out the manual and see where its located. Might be worth swapping it out if so.

jeffball610 · PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:08 pm

I can see the relay being an issue, but most of these issues seem to be something else. Why would the solenoid click, but not turn the starter motor? I thought maybe the starter gear just wasn't engaging the flywheel gears, but wouldn't it still turn and maybe grind?

There's a few issues like this that I'm having with my car and there seems to be no answer. But that won't keep me from trying to figure it out.

89Mirageman · PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:22 pm

My AWD summit did this and the battery was in the stock location, I also remember pma1123 mentioning that his csm started having this issue a while back at the Shootout and I'm pretty sure his battery was still under the hood too. I'm not saying it can't be related to a battery relocation, just that its unlikely since others with the battery in the stock location are having the same problem.

I know in my case the starter did nothing. If the starter motor was turning over but not engaging the flywheel you would still hear it spinning.

MattGSR · PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:14 am

Ive had my battery relocated for over a year now and never had this problem until recently. Maybe the starter and battery were getting old so this started happening. What battery has good cranking power, maybe ill switch to a better battery when the time comes for this walmart batt to go.

Flying Eagle · PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:35 pm

Has the battery been tested with a reputable machine? You could have a bad cell, and this can cause intermittent go/no go start conditions.
Even if you have to pay a few bucks to have it done, better to know now, rather than later.

MattGSR · PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:53 pm

Quote:

Has the battery been tested with a reputable machine? You could have a bad cell, and this can cause intermittent go/no go start conditions.
Even if you have to pay a few bucks to have it done, better to know now, rather than later.

maybe ill just do that to cover all the bases

pma1123 · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:53 pm

Just saw this thread, and yes, my car occasionally does this. I turn the key to start position about 4 or 5 times, and finally it engages the starter rather than just a 'click'. This has been happening randomly for the past 2 years at least. I know for a fact this has happened with 2 different batteries, 2 different starters, and 2 different engines....which reminds me, I removed/cleaned/added grounds when I had the engine out last time.

At this point, I'm blaming the ignition switch. The car can still be pop-started if it decides to go to hell completely, so its not the end of the world. Just annoying, thats all.

I guess the question I have...how does one go about re-keying an ignition switch tumbler?

CaptainTonus · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:26 pm

Quote:

Just saw this thread, and yes, my car occasionally does this. I turn the key to start position about 4 or 5 times, and finally it engages the starter rather than just a 'click'. This has been happening randomly for the past 2 years at least. I know for a fact this has happened with 2 different batteries, 2 different starters, and 2 different engines....which reminds me, I removed/cleaned/added grounds when I had the engine out last time.

My car does this as well. It started off as an intermittent thing, but eventually got so bad that the car would only start like 1 in 10 times, and I would have to bump start it the rest of the time. I changed the starter and the problem went away for a really long time, but now it's starting to come back again. Tends to do it more on hot starts. My car has a pretty old and pretty crappy battery in it, so I feel like I should change that at some point before I blame the ignition switch.

89Mirageman · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:37 pm

One other thing, how many of you guys still have the clutch safety switch hooked up? Maybe unplug it and see if that makes a difference.

I looked up the starter relay in the FSM. Connector C-27 goes to it which is located somewhere behind/under the radio. Its a 4 wire connector with two B/R wires, one B/W and one B/Y. There is also a way to test the relay itself.

CaptainTonus · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:58 pm

The clutch safety switch is unplugged on my car. Was like that when I bought it. I also ran a really beefy ground wire to the starter from the negative terminal on the battery and it still has issues sometimes. I've known people who have had this problem on 1g's and 2g's as well, for what it's worth.

Flying Eagle · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:25 pm

Quote:

I guess the question I have...how does one go about re-keying an ignition switch tumbler?

Get a new ignition switch assembly, and remove and transfer over all the little tumblers, springs, in exactly the same order as was removed. Usually there is a little plate that holds them all in, or they get held in when the center section gets inserted into the sleeve. Either way, I have redone the tailgate lock, well SUPER cleaned it out as it was almost seized completely a few years ago - now I have no issues with it. Best to mark the orientation of all parts as they are removed, and the numbering on the tumblers if still visible, otherwise a new lock kit may come with brand new tumblers/sliding plates, grease, springs, etc. Takes a good 30 minutes to get it apart and installed, not including removing your dash bits - some cars are worse than others. I just hope you don't need new sheer bolts to hold things into place - they would come with a kit I hope but not sure, haven't done it to this car yet.

pma1123 · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:24 pm

thanks Tim! I've had the sticky tailgate lock issue in the past as well, good to know.

I can also confirm my clutch switch was unplugged years ago...

Thinking about this more; a bad relay (because of burned/corroded contacts on the high tension side) would still make the 'click' noise if the electromagnet portion of it was working correctly, but the internal contacts were burned from arcing over the years and unable to carry enough current to engage the starter solenoid.
Wonder if I could carefully pull the relay apart and dress the contacts before I get into a lock tumbler disassembly project...

It would be interesting to see how many key-cycles my colt has been through in 19 years/202,000mi. We've probably gotten our moneys worth out of whatever is ailing at this point...

89Mirageman · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:27 pm

^^^^Take some pics when you tear the relay down. We will be expecting a full writeup once you're done.

MattGSR · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:40 pm

ya pics and quick writeup would be very helpful to alot of us

Flying Eagle · PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:50 pm

PMA, it's good you mention the relay and it could explain alot. Some radio installations also tap into the Ignition circuitry for power and this can also put a large strain on a part that shouldn't be tapped into. Don't know how many people installed alarms into these boxes this way either. I'm hoping mine stays good till the snow flies again, no issues yet.

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Car hard to start sometimes??

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