4g61t.org

So i was wondering, since the 4G61 shares or can share so much with the 4G63, would it be a "better" engine to work with than a 4G93 out of a GSR? Yes i understand that one displaces 1.6 & one, 1.8 but we're dealing with turbocharged engines where boost can fix that issue of displacement. And i mean they both utilize 390cc injectors although the 93T has a 13G turbo to the 11B of the 61T. The weak link in the 4G93 are the connecting rods but what's the weak link in a 61T? And yes the 4G61T makes 135HP (US & CAN) and 160HP (Japan) while the 4G93T makes 195-205HP, but is it better? Yes stock for stock, and on paper yes, but what about responding to more mods?

Reason i ask is cause i just like the idea of displacement only being 1.6L but being able to kick ass and hang with the 1.8 & 2.0 crowds for fun, and just a fun lil engine. And i was thinking of maybe swapping one into a Lancer GSR (yes removing the 1.8 to put a 1.6 and keep it 4WD...that should work...right? ) And i just like the 4G6 series of engines.

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment in advance lol. Looking forward to the answers to my questions and feedback.

The only thing that really limits you is money and choice. If you have the money, you can choose to be different and go with a 93t. I don't think we ever got the 93t here in the states so our knowledge on it may be limited unless some of our foreign members chime in.

_________________
Had a:
1991 Eagle Summit ES Hatchback - 4g15 12v 5spd
1991 Dodge Colt -4g15 12v 4spd
Have a:
1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass - 468BBO TH350
Round 3:
1990 Dodge Colt-4G63T 5spd

The 4G61 is a better base engine hands down. It shares much of the architechure of the larger 4G63. The 4G93 is a weaker engine, and has a an inferior cylinder head in terms of flow. I have built heavily modified versions of all three (4G61, 4G63, 4G93). There are almost no off the shelf performance parts for the 4G93. Everything has to be custom made, which means big $. Almost all 4G63 parts can be used in the 4G61 ( I think the only big item that cannot be transfered are the pistons). So you benefit from over 10 years of R&D. The rod ratio on the 4G93 is also ridicously low (it's a long stroke engine) meanining it's not as durable as at high rpm.

Yea i know it wasnt available at all in the US and yea you're right about the money, trust me cause what marck said is true. Lots if not all the parts have to be custom made and he agreed to the fact that the rods suck major ballz lol. Heard about the head as well but didn't expect it to be that bad. BUt again alot of money can fix these things but it takes more money to build or play around with a 93T.

So marck, with experience in building heavily modded 61s & 63's would my swapping a 61T into a Lancer GSR make sense to you? Especially as i want it to just be a fun lil car and not go balls out?
Also i knew about the interchangeability of parts but from what you say there seems like there are alot more that i didnt think of. So rods from a 63T can work in a 61T? If so that means forged aftermarket rods can as well then?

And thanks for the replies guys.

The rods are the same.

The only major difference between the 63 and the 61 is a smaller bore, shorter stroke, and shorter deck height. There are others, like the port size and the volume of the combustion chamber, but they are negligible because of the swappability of the heads (as well as almost everything else). The ideal head would be the 4g67 head (aka the 1.8-liter 4g6x motor) because it shares the same larger port size as the 4g63 but the smaller combustion chambers of the 4g61. The '67 also has the same deck height as the 63, as well as the same crank and rods.

Hands down, go with the 4g6x family. Tried and true.

~joe

Thanks for that extra info as well Joe. Yup 4G6 family is indeed the best, no doubt there. So looking at this 4G61 GSR idea now. (Eventually)

So a guy over at 4G61nz.co.nz told me i can use a 4G67 head for the larger ports and use a dual runner manifold from a VR4 RS or such with the 8 ports that 4 are opened and the other 4 open at about 4100rpm so all ports are open. This would aid in the bottom end if i were to say install a larger (13G-16G) turbo on the 4G61. Anyone has gone this route? Either with the head and mani or one or the other? He said he had problems with it so he ditched it for a regular manifold. At first it wasn't opening then he played with the vacuum lines (one of two things you must have, the other being the VR4 ECU) and got it to open but it only opened when the turbo began spooling anyway defeating its prupose really.

Any feedback guys? Who has done one or the other or both?

Send a message to snowdevl, I think he played around with a 16g/cyclone intake/61t for awhile.

_________________
Had a:
1991 Eagle Summit ES Hatchback - 4g15 12v 5spd
1991 Dodge Colt -4g15 12v 4spd
Have a:
1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass - 468BBO TH350
Round 3:
1990 Dodge Colt-4G63T 5spd

Lol he was the one who told me about the 4G67/8 runner manifold lol. Thought someone else or ther people have tried it lol.

Ignorance is bliss they say but when it comes to cars hell no and there's no such thing as too much information.

Bringing back up interchangeability or 4G63 parts to the 4G61. Can stock 4G63T cams bolt into the 4G61T? If so does that mean aftermarket 4G63 cams will bolt in?
If no that means swapping the 4G63 head to the 4G61 block to use after market cams.

The ONLY physical difference between the two is what I mentioned before. bore, stroke, deck height. if you cannot find a 1.8 head then the 2.0 head is the next best thing, as it still has the larger ports.

to put it simply, pretty much everything swaps

~

The rods from a 1st gen DSM (as well as main and conrod bearings) all bolt directly in to a 4G61.

The dual runner cyclone intake is to be thrown in the nearest rubbish bin. Get a 1g DSM manifold.

The all DSM cams will bolt directly into the 4G61. As will 4G63 cam gears, lifters, rockers, valves, springs, head studs (arp), etc. I run HKS272's in my 4G61T Head.

4G63 Bore is 85mm, 4G61T bore is 82mm. Pistons will not swap as the deck height of the 4G61T is 6mm lower than the the 4G63. The 4G63 piston (even if the block is bored to fit) will rise above the deck of the block. I doubt you could even bolt the head on.

The 1st Gen DSM flywheel (and therefore clutch) will bol directly to the 4G61T. This allows you a much wider selection of aftermarket clutches and flywheels.

I found this thread by searching to see if cranks from a 4g63 and 4g61 were the same and apparently they are

I happen to have a flywheel from my 4g61 and 4g63 although they look like they will swap they look different.I can post a few pic's tomorrow after work but the height of the clutch surface sits up higher on the one from the 4g61 then the 4g63 does anyone have an idea why? It's not from being worn out it's made different,it's contact surface sits closer to the clutch/tranny.

4g61 and 4g63 cranks are identical in terms of manufacture - forged, and nitrided for durability. The rods are also identical - forged 1G rods, shared between both motors. Crank throw is not the same, thus partly the reason behind the displacement difference. 4g61 is short stroke for high revving, and 4g63 is longer stroke for torque production in heavier car platforms.

What you are seeing is the difference between a FWD DSM elevated pressure plate stanchions? versus flat face flywheel in the FWD CSM. You can install the DSM FWD flywheel and 225mm clutch, into a KM210/F5M31 or into a an KM215/F5M33. When using a Colt/Mirage KM210 equipped car, keep the starter plate and starter (all the same on 90-94 DSM/1.6L NA or Turbo CSM's) and install the clutch/pressure plate/Flywheel. Check out my members thread for the parts you would need in detail. I don't have the numbers for the starter plate, but I can get them if you like via ASA.

Stock KM210 uses a 215mm clutch/pressure plate and flywheel combo.