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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Location: Hagerstown, md
well, seems the video was'nt much help for striking up ideas, but i did find out something else with a bit of frustration LOL.

So i went out today, tried starting it after just looking over some things. At first it would only crank and show no signs of wanting to start. I continued to try it for about 3-4 times turning the key off completely after each attempt before turning it on and cranking again. Eventually i started getting some sputtering/short starts and cut offs again. eventually i decided to just keep the starting turning even through the mini start ups and eventually it fired up and started running at an idle while i had the key in the start position, so basicly the starter was still engaged with the engine running. Once it was running very well i let off the key and died instantly. I've been able to do this repeatedly today but to sum it up, the starter has to be turning the motor over in order for it to run...and it runs with no missing etc. As soon as the key is let go and it goes to the on position it dies immediately...Any ideas with this new info?


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:11 pm 
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sounds like either the fuel pump relay (small gold box i think under the radio on these cars).. or its electrical where its not keeping 12v to that relay when key is let go..



Steve

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Steve 89 colt 2.3 stroker stock top end. evo3@20 psi 13.489@99.30mph 3/10 2012
On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:32 pm 
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hmm looks like after i swap out these coolant temp sensors i snagged a few years back from the junk yard i'll be checking that out as well..basicly i just need to make sure its at 12v with the key on correct?


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:46 pm 
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kinda hard to test it... basically u get 12v to it when in run position... then when in normal position it will only have 12v when the car is actually running.. that way the FP wont stay running when car isnt running.




Steve

_________________
Steve 89 colt 2.3 stroker stock top end. evo3@20 psi 13.489@99.30mph 3/10 2012
On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:30 am 
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Location: Hagerstown, md
well i hit the fuel pump with a direct how wire, heard it running like crazy the whole time lol and still didnt help hmm so maybe its not the fuel i'm losing in the run position but instead spark. its the 4g63t swapped 4g btw, so i hit that on the mpi relay. im running out of ideas now :/ hmm i guess i'll have to try and find the post i saw that only needed like 13 pins on the ecu to make the car run and start checking those.

Anyone off hand know of the post im talking about? hmm maybe in archives or on mirageperformance forums.

also, the more i think of it the more i've been thinking that i've got a 90 harness and a 91 motor...but the donor car was running with this in the donor car atleast long enough for the other guys to wreck it LOL.

Can anyone tell me what the mass air flow sensor should be reading in volts, ohms or whatever kinda voltage ?

Has anyone ever heard of this kind of problem with a bad ecu? I snagged like 3 coolant temps sensors from the junk yard a long time ago, i swapped one out but not the other two yet....i just dont know.

I did notice my tach isnt working now either..but i did swap another cam sensor out from the one before. when i get a chance later today or tomorrow i'll check to see if it gets some power.

Does anyone have a list of what the voltage should be to all sensors on the car?

The car doesnt like it if u push the throttle while its running...wants to die out...I disconnected the throttle position sensor and car starts the same, not sure if thats normal or not either LOL. got a few ideas of what i'd like to check but would feel better knowing what kinda voltage i should be getting to some of these sensors to test them out

The car has an egr delete on it, I havnt hooked my boost gauge up yet since i didnt want to risk an intake leak, but it seems it might be better to go ahead and finish that up to see what kinda boost i've got while i get it to idle even with the starter on. I also used a diagram to hook up the intake hoses and they are blocked off and such as needed as far as i know.

when i get some extra cash if i havnt figured out the problem yet, i'd like to get a 91-94 dsm ecu to swap out and see if thats been the problem the whole time...just not sure if i'd waste the cash or not since the car does actually run even if its in a strange way.

Accepting any and all ideas even if its been mentioned so anyone that reads feel free to reply...also this might now be a better thread for 4g63 tech so if u guys feel the same feel free to move the thread there now too.

thanks again for the info and ideas

Ben


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:52 am
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Location: Astoria OR
When i had the wrong ecu in my car (the 91+in a 90 ) it wouldnt rev up either it also surged alot.
If your wondering just switch pin 6 and 14 or whatever they were. If thats the problem it will work like a charm and no need to source another ecu. Worth a shot

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Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:43 pm 
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Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Also if your tps and cas plugged right in you have the correct harness for the engine. They are completely different between the 90 and 91-94's.

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89 2 Door Montero V6/Manual
95 Eagle Summit DL coupe
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:00 pm 
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ok lets go back to the start... first off.. look at the cas... does it have the plug on it.. or a wire coming out with a plug at end of wire. that will let us know if its a 90 or 91+...

if the motor. harness and ecu came from the same running car then it should all work... as for the wires at the ecu to connect to the car.. i think theres only a few that need to be connected to start...the rest are just for the gauges to interface with the sensors on the motor.

and as chris stated (this only works if its the 90 harness/engine ) sometimes (and I have done this before also).. the cas and tps have the same plugs.. maybe try swapping them (check the color match up of them).

when I did my swap into my 4g it took me a few weeks to get the wiring right mostly cause I was also splicing in a auto tcu at the same time which I eliminated since then..and to note I was only working on it 30 min to a hour per day and not every day so thats why it took a few weeks.

if it comes down to nothing here working I can try to find all the info I used and take some picks of my ecu area.. but hopefully that wont be needed as its a pain lol...

let us know the results.

Steve

_________________
Steve 89 colt 2.3 stroker stock top end. evo3@20 psi 13.489@99.30mph 3/10 2012
On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:13 am 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 9:04 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Hagerstown, md
yep see the cas wiring is what gave me this idea...the very first cas i switched out we had to snip wires and re-wire for the plug, the old cas had the wire comming off of it and a plug at the end. (at this time i knew nothing about anything so my friend did all this, and i've just recently started re-checking his work) Currently I have a plug that is wired up to go to the cas. I've got 2 green top and one black top cas, which i've recently switched around...the tach also doesnt work at the moment and i know that was a problem with alot of the 90's swaps as well. It looks to be a nice day today and I will have to re-read the replies a couple times since my reading comprehension sux LOL but after like 5-6 times reading through i usually get it. (which is why its taken me about 2 years of just reading to get to know the bit of info that i do know....atleast when i do get it i remember it pretty well too)

Hmm now i'll need to get the part number off the ecu and google around to find out exactly what it is.

Also have any of you heard the ecu being bad with any kinda problems like this? just curious because the next things i get if i cant get it working will be another ecu and possibly injectors as they are the 2 parts i've never actually swapped out myself.

I'm actually gettin ready to head out to get some dr appointments out of the way so if i didn't reply to everything yet, i'll get it in a couple hrs :)

Also i told mirageman it was a 91+ engine/harness when he made the wiring adapter, so if any of that may be an issue let me know.

thanks for the replies guys, its close to being done i can feel it LOL

Ben


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:25 am 
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Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Bad ecu's can cause all sorts of weird issues. Anybody with one of these cars should have a few spares on hand. The 90 & 91-94 harnesses are also different where they connect to the dash harness. If you can grab some pics of the plugs there I can easily let you know what harness you have.

_________________
89 2 Door Montero V6/Manual
95 Eagle Summit DL coupe
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:21 pm
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this is th emain image I used for my 4g swap..(along with a 90 ecu color pinout)... if you look at the top plugs center to right u will see the tps and cas plugs with wire colors so u can match them up to ur car. also I have 2 tached clusters and I cannot for the life of me get it to work.. I have tried everything... but if I hook up a dsm tach to the same wires it works.. so im stumped on that.


Image



hope this helps

Steve

_________________
Steve 89 colt 2.3 stroker stock top end. evo3@20 psi 13.489@99.30mph 3/10 2012
On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 9:04 pm
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Location: Hagerstown, md
hmm after lookin at that and going by what i just re-wired i believe the two plugs arent mixed up now. and as for a pic of the plug i'll get that for u today sometime mirageman, and that will make it easier to know for sure without any wasted time.


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 9:04 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Hagerstown, md
I finally got the pics a little bit ago, and uploaded them to photobucket

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

the open wires you see around the mpi relay are wires that i stripped to ground them or add power to them at certain points...battery is still disconnected so i left them like that until im done testing them etc. let me know if you need better pics to go by chris since I just snapped those quickly


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:09 pm 
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Location: Hagerstown, md
after a quick google the part number on the case matches for a 91-94 motor, and it is quite possible that the old cas that had the plug wire connected to it was just wired into the engine harness before i got it, and what my friend had done was swap it back to the original.


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 Post subject: Re: -hard start issues?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:53 pm 
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Location: Tucson Az
yeah that cas is 91+... can you take a pic of the coil pack plug?



Steve

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Steve 89 colt 2.3 stroker stock top end. evo3@20 psi 13.489@99.30mph 3/10 2012
On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


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