4g61t.org

The reason I what stroker is because I'm using a auto trans and with a auto trans the bottom end isn't that great but the top end is nuts. So if I mixed it with the low end of a stroker motor with the top end of the trans, I should be a equal length power band so if I think,lol.

Actually Tom, from my experience its the other way around. Usually autos have quite solid low to midrange torquiness due to the converter "loading" up. You will have a very usable 1st gear, where on a manual it would suck donkey balls. The converter slip on the topend usually tends to have a weaker feeling than a manual.

Well I have experienced both DSMs with auto & 5 speed, with autos on it's final gear the tq converter is locked (1 to 1) meaning they don't slip on higher speeds. I've noticed that in mid range, the 5 speed over powers but top end on a auto is killer. I'm still curious on a 2.3 stroker with auto, I've been trying to see a video of a 2.3 stroker DSM or CSM with automatic trans but, came up short

For an auto:

Advantages to 2.0:
plenty of RPM to wind out 3rd gear on the top end
Better reliability
More power at the higher RPMs
Higher RPM in theory = more efficient converter, so less slippage

Disadvantages of 2.0:
Stalling up a big turbo is a bitch
car can be a slug from a roll with a big turbo sometimes

Advantages of 2.3:
no stall problems - get the highest hughes restall and be done with it
GREAT power onset from a roll
launching is pretty much idiot proof with the right stall

Disadvantages of the 2.3:
Not enough RPM for high mph - with a 26" tire you will be hitting 8500 RPM in the 140-145mph range
more prone to breakage - general stroker reliability issues, as well as the stress on the axles and transfer case output shaft; suspension is key here!
will wear out clutches faster obviously
Lower RPMs = less converter efficiency

One thing about the autos is that they seem to dampen things well. If you take care of your car, the stroker will work great for an auto car that is properly set up and don't plan on going over 140mph. The extra torque of the strokers likes to tear up flex plates (though kiggly makes one now that solves this problem) and also without a great suspension setup is more prone to axle and Xfer case breakage, but the usual problems of bolts falling off, etc, harmonic related problems, are much less on the auto.

Some other things - someone mentioned the converter "locking up"; This does not happen on DSMs. 2Gs have a lockup but it is used for gas mileage and is disengaged at wide open throttle. 1Gs do not have a lockup at all. As the RPMs go up, the converter becomes more efficient, but it is never 100% efficient. Lots of people feel many ways as to whether or not this matters, personally, I feel it does not matter much as long as the converter is decent. From my experience of converting cars back and forth between auto and MT, I feel like it all depends on turbo setup. The auto can be a slug from a really low RPM, but you just learn to drive around it, it's not a big deal. With a properly configured TCU you don't even notice it really. The MT is useless at low mph with high horsepower, where the auto is very usable. The manual does feel faster in the 90-110mph range usually, because 3rd gear is so long, but once you get past 110 or so the auto will really be rolling. Not any faster than it's 5 speed counterpart I don't think, but up there with it. The MPH loss at the track is an illusion due to difference in gear and faster shifts that don't lose load, it does not signify a loss of power or top end.

It just sucks that there is so many parts available for these cars, that it's hard to chose a " perfect" setup for your needs,lol. I would hate to spend the money twice on something that I could have done it once,lol. My plans are to at least hit 1050s or high 10s, if I dip in the 9s that will be a added bonus I want to be able to do Constance times with out breaking drivetrain parts and yeah a 2.3 stroker might be a bad choice, but it was something to think about,lol. Decision, decision.......

well if mid 10s is your goal, the stroker is honestly probably the better build, as long as you take the care to make sure you set it up reliably. With the stroker on a 26" tire and a good converter, you're safe up to 135-140ish mph, which is good for solid high 9s. After that you're winding the motor out of it's comfort zone and are going to be flirting with disaster. So if you don't plan on going faster than that, i'd go with the stroker for the extra low end and better stall up.

Well this is my brainstorming build,lol.

-95 hyundai elantra automatic 4g63t + awd swap

-4500 IPT stall converter with shift kit and end clutches

-2.3 stroker or build 2.0 (undecided at the moment)

- GT35R on a cast REVHARD T4 manifold with a 40mm wastegate

- SMIM (which one undecided yet)

- FP 272 cams (280s might be more than what I want)

- build head ( port/ polish/arp studs/ head gasket/etc,etc..)

- DSMlink v2/or ECM tuning v3 (undecided)

- GM maf or high speed density

From what I've seen, the Hughes converters are superior to the IPT. I'd go that route.

GM MAF support is built into ECMLink, I'm pretty sure V2 is no longer available, not sure why you'd want V2 when V3 is the same but better. There is no full time speed density in ECMlink or DSMlink.

by FP272 cams I assume you're referring to the FP2s? You might want to decide what motor you want to build before trying to decide on cams. And realize that the names mean nothing. FP2 is a high RPM cam for when you want a 6000+ RPM powerband. Some 280s (i.e. BC) are actually a pretty small cam in comparison to some 272 cams. Decide what motor you want, then figure out a cam choice.

Yeah I don't have anything set in stone yet, and still haven't figure out my motor build plan yet so pretty much everything is up in the air. I mention the v2 because if I happen to get a v2 from someone and which I'm more familiar to than v3, that's why I said that. A lot of the old timers where saying that the HKS 272 cams are a better choice for a build 2.0, not sure on a 2.3 though.

The TQ, I'm going to that Hughes converters like you said because I haven't heard that name before but will look into it. Translator Pro sells a full time high speed density so I might use that, but idk, everything still up in the air so when I'm dead set on something I usually stick to it and going automatic is dead set for me even though a lot of my local buddies are bashing me because of it,lol. Oh well, they will have to wait and see what a automatic can do right,lol.

well the thing is the 280s are set up for a high RPM. They are still kindof a small cam anyways. for a 2.3, If you're on a budget, I'd get the FP3, 3x, or 4R. If you don't mind spending a little more, there are some bigger cams out there.

Your friends are just ignorant. Auto is the way to go for high power. We picked up huge traction just on the FWDs going to a auto on 904g63summit (I think that's his name on here?) summit. On my AWD talon, I went from doing 60mph rolling burnouts with a 5 speed, to being able to launch at 20 PSI on the street with zero wheelspin with the auto. 1slocolt finally learned his lesson last week about the 5 speed after I've been nagging him all year too.

Yeah I've tried launching the car multiple times, and there is no way its gonna work out. I'd have to sit on the limiter forever to build any speed, or go with a clavico valve or something to ramp the boost up after I shift into 2nd. Either way, the car is much slower than if it were on an auto.

Clutches are for losers.

Ok I know some really good info, on this subject.

I found out that Kiggly racing FWD A/T race car is a 2.3L which means it's a stroker. From my buddy was telling me that it is a 2.3 stroker and not 2.3 bore over,lol. Sweet and from my buddy has is that he revs near close to 9500, on a stroker that's nuts. Also his MPH is way beyond 140 MPH which means that it looks like I might go stroker on Elantra, but still not sure yet. This is a very good to know that you can go further with a stroker,lol.

Here is the specs on the car:

1991 Plymouth Laser FWD
· NHRA Hot Rod Class and NDRA Pro 4-Cylinder Class
· NHRA Certified 25.5 Chassis (7.50ET legal)
· Kiggly Racing 1-piece Front Clip
· 28” x 10.5” MT Slicks on 10” Weld Wheels
· 2150lb race weight
· 2.3l Mitsubishi 4G63 with Wiseco 1400HD Pistons, Crower Rods, Kiggly Racing Main Girdle and Oil Pickup
· 2g cylinder head with FP5R/FP11R Cams and Kiggly Racing Valve Spring Kit
· Kiggly Racing fabricated sheet metal intake manifold
· Borg Warner 74mm Turbo on Kiggly Racing fabricated tri-y header
· Mitsubish F4A33 2g DSM Automatic Transmission with Kiggly Racing Front Clutch, 6-bolt in a 2g Adapter Kit, Billet Diff Saddle, and Precision Industries 9.5” Billet Converter
· Haltech E11V2 ECU with AIM MXL Pro05 Digital Dash
· Dynatek ARC2 Capacitive Discharge Ignition

BEST ET: 8.558 at 162.93mph with a 1.342 60’

BEST 60’: 1.320

Here is the site if you want to see him make a pass with the car:
http://www.kigglyracing.com/racing/index.htm

Kiggly revs his stroker to the moon because he's spent HOURS upon HOURS of time researching head porting and intake manifold design. That guy is a freak, and the things he accomplishes are nothing short of extraordinary. His achievements are not typical of what your average joe is going to accomplish with a standard 2.3 build, plain and simple. Also, trapping above 140mph is not at all difficult with a 2.0 liter and has been done by many people, and the fact that his car weighs 2,150lbs. is probably fairly helpful.

He also changes rod bearings WAY more often than if the motor were a 2.0L

Well I'm going to try the 2.0 this year on a mild build because I want to go to the track a couple times this year so for now I'm going with a stock 2.0, BS removed, sleeper 20g, web cams 264/272 combo, 650cc injectors, hope DSMLink/ECMlink if not VPC, 255 walbro, and FMIC with set up and this is all going on a 1g auto FWD with slicks for the hyundai elantra. I differently doing AWD but I want to see how far I can get with this set up first