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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:12 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 5:22 pm
Posts: 456
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Crazy. Just crazy... love the build. One month, 500 bucks, and a shitload of skill!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:06 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
I've got another three day weekend and i'm hoping to be able to take it out for a spin before it's over. I am going to relocate the battery to the trunk, and i am tempted to go buy some heavy duty wire and a battery box, but i am tempted to look for a low cost alternative. Need to make that initial pass on less than 500 bucks. Hoping for at least 14.9. For my budget, making it down the track at all is doing pretty damn good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:54 am 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
I took it for the first spin at 5:00 pm yesterday. (licenced it at 4:00) I have the battery bungee corded in the rear and monster amp wire vice gripped right onto it. The rear floor is still open, interior still gutted, Etc. No oil or temp or boost guage. This thing runs like a top! It had LOTS of blue smoke at first, but now Not so much if any. It actually shifts good too! 3rd gear seems to be the worst, but it's way better than the first dsm i had. I am surprised the tranny is as good as it is, i'm saying. It was all over the road for the first little spin around the block, then i aligned the wheels just by eyeballing the front tires to back, installed a 8 foot length of 2.25 inch pipe, slapped on a fart can i had laying around, and now it's at least quiet enough i have some slight chance of not getting a ticket if i drive nice. The pipe cost 40 bucks with clamps, and the fart can was free.
I will take the car in for a proper alignment when i get the suspension just the way i like it! Don't worry i am not that ghetto!

I think this is the first motor swap i have ever done that has no leaks! Right off the bat, no leaks, not a drop...... yet.

Then i took it out again and got into it a little bit, but not too much cause i still don't have any guages, and it feels a LOT more responsive off the line than a dsm. not laggy at all, and i still have stock everything with balance shafts.

I should be working on it all day today and tomorrow.
I spent 40 bucks on exhaust and 16 on a p.s belt. 90 bucks on a skinny fan that i'm not sure will work, if it doesn't i'll put it on something else and subtract it from the budget.

total cost 530 bucks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:59 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
That skinny fan didn't work, but i managed to fit a stock talon fan on the other side. Wired it in reverse so it pushes. It fit quite easy. What a waste of money that fan was. So i'm subtracting that from the cost. I spent 75 bucks on my battery relocation kit. something that is not necessary, could have been free, but i'm past the point of not spending money.

I ran 0-60 in 5.5 seconds today (gtech) I'll do the 1/4 tomorrow. No intercooler, 10 psi boost, no tach, i just shift when the boost starts to creep. It will creep all the way to 15psi if i don't shift. I think the wastegate must be overwhelmed by the lack of backpressure maybe? Definately the fastest 500 dollar beater i have ever had or ever heard of.

I still have some more necessities to finish before i worry too much about going fast. Like closing in the rear floor and fixing the front camber.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:31 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:28 pm
Posts: 404
Location: salt lake.
tell us more about the front 5 lugs.. if you would.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:50 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
The 5 lugs is only something to consider if you have a donor car. The talon knucles will fit right on the ball joints no problem, the tie rods ends will have to be inverted, and you may or may not experience bumpsteer, mine seems o.k but i lowered the front end to compensate for the inverted tie rods. Then you will have to slot the struts to get your camber angles right. I would not recommend any of this cause it's kinda MICKEY MOUSE. It would be better to just machine the hubs and not mess with the steering geometry.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:10 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
I ran the 1/4 on the gtech. Best time i mustered was 14.60 Not too shabby for 500 bucks I actually got this time watching my boost guage and never letting it get past 10 psi. I think i was at 1/4 throttle for like forever in third gear. I also tried WOT all three gears,It spiked all the way up to 18 psi and did like a 14.9. This motor must be knocking like a bitch. I bet it's knocking damn near all the time. (a full weight dsm should run 14.6 with open exhaust, i'm sure. I'm gonna pull the timing 5 degrees,(It is stock 5 degrees advance right now) up the octane, colder plugs, and i hate to say it, probably try to restict the exhaust a bit, so i can stop that stupid boost creep. Maybe i should put a floor in the car one of these days, or take an evening off from the car, i'm way too obsessed with this thing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:49 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 9:01 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Bristol, IN
Have you ported out the exhaust housing on the turbo yet. If not, that would help out your creep. Focus more on the inlet of the wastegate hole and making the hole itself larger. You can also get a bigger flap to further enlarge the wastegate hole.

Another thing that would help. If you used the stock o2 housing, you could make an o2 eliminator with a wastegate dump. That will help with creep.

What size did you use for your down pipe?

_________________
91 Mirage + 8 DSM's + CTD Dodge = Too many projects ](*,)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:03 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
It is 2 1/4 inch straight pipe with the stock talon muffler. It was cheap and here, basically not much less restrictive than a stock talon exhaust with no cat. This boost creep thing is crazy though. I will take your advice to heart, The other two talons i had i did little(free mods) as far as tuning goes, i have much to learn about that aspect. I must be detonating like crazy the way the engine's performing. I figure you must need to have at least a stock intercooler to have decent performance at all. I pulled the timing 10 degrees so it's at 5 degrees retarded right now, and i pulled a 14.5 1/4 at 1/4 throttle in 2nd and third to keep it at 10 psi. any more boost makes no difference. And Obviously, no fuel cut. It must just not fuel cut cause it isn't actually using that air, cause the ecu is retarding the timing too much too burn efficiently. Let me know if any of what i said makes any sense.

Either way i'll be installing an intercooler before i go any further, then i'll worry about it if it's still this gutless.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:19 pm 
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Newbie

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 9:01 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Bristol, IN
I understand what you mean. You are basicly using your throttle plate as a boost controller, right?

Ive never ran a dsm without an intercooler, so i cant help much in that aspect. I would think that you should be able to keep it way under 18psi though with only 2 1/4 exhaust even without the intercooler. On a stock dsm you can run as low as 7-8psi running just off the actuator pressure. I wouldnt think the stock piping and intercooler would have a 10lb pressure drop.

I would double check to make sure the wastegate is opening properly. Also, if you havent tried yet, run your actuator strait to your boost source without the factory boost controller. If you are using the stock turbo outlet elbow, run a hose off that barb strait to the actuator. The stock actuator spring should be around 7-8psi.

Most dsm's start getting boost creep that bad with 3" downpipes, but this is just for reference. I know this isnt the same setup. Just throwing ideas around.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:00 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
that is great advice, but i did all that stuff already. I have a vacuuum/pressure pump/ tester. very handy thing for testing wastegates, i do it all the time, The actuator works properly. Opens around 10 psi. I have a 13b sitting here, i could probably bolt on the actuator off it and see what happens. It is creep, though. It will stop and hold 10 psi exactly for about 1000 rpm or so, then it climbs right up there. So basically changinig actuators isn't going to help.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:04 am 
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Newbie

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 9:01 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Bristol, IN
What rpm does it start to creep? Another test you might want to try would be disconnect the actuator rod from the wastegate arm. Your turbo will be extremly laggy, but it will still build boost at the higher rpm. If you still get higher boost than you want, you will either have to do some port work, go with an external dump off your wastegate, restrict your exhaust, or go with an external wastegate.

Something doesnt seem right if you are only getting 1000 rpm of controlable boost though. I would guess even if you used the stock sidemount intercooler, which would have a bigger pressure drop than aftermarket stuff, you would still have some creep. Ive never heard of 2 1/4 exhaust causing that much creep.

Do you know any history on your donor car? This may be an extreme long shot, but ive found a couple of turbo dsm's that the owner messed up the motor and "couldnt find" another turbo shortblock and used a NT 2.0. 9:1 compression might cause boost creep in your situation. It would also knock like a bitch without an intercooler. Again, that would be a long shot, but nothing surprises me anymore dealing with dsm's. Sometimes owners do wierd things to save money, time, or just dont know any better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:27 am 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Boost creep is gone now. I' not sure what fixed it, cause i simplified all the vacuum lines(might of had some leaks) and i installed the factory side mount at the same time, one of those things did it. now it holds 10 psi solid as high as i can rev it. I also installed a 90 tach filter and now my tach works. I ordered a cheap ebay intercooler. It's 28x5.5. I know it's a little small but it should fit pretty easy and i can leave the stock front bumper. The dsm intercooler is installed in the engine bay where the battery usually goes. I knew an intercooler is important, but i can't believe how much. After one little pull i can get out and the intercooler is so hot you can't touch it for long. I can't believe that some cars come stock without one. I took the hood off and did the 1/4 at 14.25, and the intercooler was already hot when i did that. Now i just gotta sit and wait for the new cooler.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:38 am 
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Some call me a god

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 8:01 pm
Posts: 1108
Location: Sask. Canada
The intercooler is in the engine bay still? If that other one takes a while to show up I would get a little rad fan from a geo metro or something and put it on the intercooler to improve the cooling of it. An intercooler at its best can only get close to the ambient air temps.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:30 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Yeah it's in the bay. It does next to nil in there i know. I just was playing around with it and realized that it would only take a few minutes to install it in the bay so i did. I did learn something from it. The importance of an intercooler. I didn't realize the turbo heats up the air that much. I will use my 2 week wait to do other things to the car. but at least with the boost down to 10 i can drive it a little safer. I put the whole interior back in the car today. even the back seats. I want that factory look(and quietness) and i don't care if the back seats weigh 40 pounds. I probably added 100 pounds today, and lost some performance, but by the seat of the pants- o meter, it feels no different.


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