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Manual steering rack or power?
http://4g61t.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1283		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  PaulMezz [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Manual steering rack or power?
Hey guys. I just want to pick your brains about power VS manual steering in the m/c/s.

As some of you may know from my other ramblings, I only solo II race my colt, so keep that in mind.

Most of my power steering lines are pretty crusty looking. I was thinking about replacing them but then I had a conversation with the person I got the car from. She never liked the power steering and it got me thinking about if I should get a manual rack or not. I would get some weight reduction so that is good. I don't often try and turn when not moving so that point is moot.

Looking thru the FSM it appears that the only change I would need to do is the rack itself. (Perhaps the tie rods, but I have not checked that out yet). So the upgrade (downgrade? sidegrade?) between racks looks simple.

I guess I just want yer opinions on if I should swap out my PS rack for MS.

I think I'll try out the el-neato poll thing too :)


Oh, does anyone live in the Rochester NY area with a MS rack wanna upgrade to power? :)

-paul
Author:  Guest [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's my thoughts on this.

I have a Mirage Turbo with P/S. Previously, I disabled it and ran the P/S rack without the engine assist. There is a weight savings of "maybe" 15lbs with the components removed. The car is heavy feeling and it does improve the steering feedback. BUT, while autocrossing, I spent the majority of my time focusing on the steering and not the course. It was more a bother then it helped. I put the P/S pump and reservoir back on. You lose feel, but you have better control.

I also have a base colt without powersteering. The manual rack is INCREDIBLY slow. This would be a great rack for drag racing because of the weight savings, and it would allow you to make small incremental adjustments while driving in a straight line. But it is also heavy feeling and you can't turn it quick enough to respond to a slalom while at a decent speed.
Author:  Berserko [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jmauld:

When your out at the races have you ever seen the old 4 wheel steering preludes? I think it would have to be a rocket through the slalom....
Author:  BlueBullet [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
i have a manual rack and it is kinda heavy...the turn in is good for the first 45 degrees, and then past that going into a tight turn i have to really turn it to get the car to move...i do like the feedback...
Author:  xlr8 [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
I reckon you would hate it. The 1990- X2 Excels have the same front suspension setup as your cars and they are pigs without P/S. Steering is sooooo heavy. The problem stems from the suspension geometry used with lower 'h' arms.

FYI - The older Colts/Excels actually have a better arrangement where they have simple lower control arms and torque bars which allows for change in castor angle and is much lighter (dont need P/S). More expensive for OEMs to put together though.
Author:  FatBastard [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
I simply pulled the belt off for a quick comparison.

I love it the way it is now... I've done several SOLO2 autocrosses with it. I'm also a large guy, and am fairly strong, so a little heavier steering doesn't bother me so much. The feedback is 100% better, I feel.
Author:  PaulMezz [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote="FatBastard":3s1wb90f]I simply pulled the belt off for a quick comparison.

I love it the way it is now... I've done several SOLO2 autocrosses with it. I'm also a large guy, and am fairly strong, so a little heavier steering doesn't bother me so much. The feedback is 100% better, I feel.[/quote:3s1wb90f]

Did you also drain the PS fluid?

I'm tempted to try this myself.
Author:  xlr8 [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  .
Just pulling the belt off is no comparison as your trying to reverse pump all that hydraullic fluid around with the steering wheel makes it super heavy - even dangerous. You would defn need to drain it first. Even then an orignal manual rack would feel different again.
Author:  PaulMezz [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Perhaps when I get bored I'll drain and have some fun.

Last friday or whatever I drove into an empty parking lot here and killed the engine while coasting to check out how it feels still full.

Damn it was hard to turn past half or something.

Well, I am still waiting for replies to the post I made about the Solo II stuff in CNY.... I would love to see some other colts there

Come on guys, straight lines suck. Go for the curves!

-paul
Author:  USER NAME [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  ihave one
i have the manuel rack in my Mirage... it has the 4g63 in it... and is mostly a straight line kinda car... from lock to lock is toooo many turns... power steering wus alot nicer.. i get better control goig straight but it is abitch to turn... not the weight of teh streering... but how many times you need to turnit.... i think u will get through the course witha n explorer faster than my car would go...

in a parking spot the steering isnt tha heavy though that wouldnt be my consern....

lets put it this way.... if i go around a hard corner..... ten let off th wheel the wheel will spin so fast that it will go past straight and go the other way then back in forth and shck around liek you are drunk.....

[b:140o5dr9]4WS Preludes[/b:140o5dr9]...... i usedto have one.... it is crazy the steering.... it feels like you are steering a shopping cart in reverse... the rear wheels will just all of sudden turn and it feels like u are drifting
Author:  Crackerman [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
use the power rack with as much fluid drained from it as possible, it is a bit
heavier than regular power steering, but MUCH better feeling and easier to steer than a regular manual rack, good for street driving and drag racing, butas jmauld said, not so hot for auto-x. it is very easy to drive on the street , and thats with the 4g63.
Author:  Jonb18c [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote="Crackerman":26dh1szh]use the power rack with as much fluid drained from it as possible, it is a bit
heavier than regular power steering, but MUCH better feeling and easier to steer than a regular manual rack, good for street driving and drag racing, butas jmauld said, not so hot for auto-x. it is very easy to drive on the street , and thats with the 4g63.[/quote:26dh1szh]

well what do you do to the rack... because. i have the ps. and i ripped everything but the rack.. i disconnected the two lines for the feed? do i need to cork them up or what?

or can i just leave them open..
Author:  Ricehunter [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Join them together, leave a little fluid in for lubrication and your set. I've had this done to my Colt since i started driving it and did the same to my talon 2 years ago. Works, and you can atually feel the steering.
Author:  Bill Spruill [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
I haven't tried without P/S, but awhile back jmauld(or someone) was talking about testing underdrive pulleys that may provide a comprise. I believe he said that with the underdrive the P/S was a little slower giving a better feel. No weight gain on the P/S, but other gains from the underdrive pulleys. Bill Spruill, oldest Colt
Author:  Crackerman [ Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote="Ricehunter":17b2x1yw]Join them together, leave a little fluid in for lubrication and your set. I've had this done to my Colt since i started driving it and did the same to my talon 2 years ago. Works, and you can atually feel the steering.[/quote:17b2x1yw]


exactly. all you need is about a foot of 3/8s inch rubber hose that is fuel adn oil resistant, and 2 hose clamps and your all set. cut the lines about 4 or 5 inches away from the rack and join them there, it is much cleaner that way.
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