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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:44 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 9:31 pm
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Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
I want to keep the factory deck(din sized cassette) that came with the 200GT but upgrade the sound. I was looking at infinity speakers and 250 watt road thunder amp from Future Shop. Problem is I'm getting conflicting advice. Can I install new speakers and an amp with the factory deck? Do I need an inverter? How many channels would I need? Are tweeters needed, or just stick with the factory sized speakers, front 4", doors and rear 6.5".


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:05 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
I personally think you are looking for alot of headache to wire all that up. I skipped trying to sort out how to wire the doors and dash and the trunk area speakers. If you are adding an amp you use one set of speaker feeds line level to source the sound for the amp/crossover if the amp doesn't accept line level feeds like most newer ones ... but there are some around, just have to look for them.

Here is what i am running currently;

Two pair Ac/Delco 5" + 1" separate tweeter on the doors up front. I made an MDF spacer and vinyled it so match the burgundy door panels - you probably have the original panel mounts though so disregard this part. Tweeter is mounted higher near the bulge at the top front most corner of the door panels - I couldn't aim them back because the mount flat to the door but no big deal - this isn't a competition front sound stage and most new cars have this setup anyways.

Two pair Ac/Delco 5" + 1" separate tweeter on the plastic panels in the rear seat area. The speaker just squeaks between the body panel/wheel well and the seatbelt assembly behind the scenes.

Both pairs of 5" + 1" speakers were wired in series *editted* (two 4ohm=8 ohm load per channel)

So basically a full timbre matched set for all four corners in the car. The rear deck panel has been vinyled over so as to look like the speakers were never there in the first place! The dash speakers have been removed entirely even though I tried some 4" Ac/Delco speakers, this wasn't sufficient and didn't match the doors and rears so just a big hassle to wire it in and I decided against that.
Total cost of the speakers from Princess Auto 99 cents a pair- regular $14.99 per pair with door panels for some Chevy model from 1995. Warehouse bargain!

My car came with an old, old, old double twist knob, one wire per speaker setup and this wasn't going to cut it no matter what I did. I have installed a Pioneer DEH-P5200 (or something like that) Here's the link
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/p ... 77,00.html

I get 45W max x4 channels with rear and front 2V preouts. Lots of control over eq and LPF / HPF internally. This helps if you want a simple amp setup - you can set it up to accept a full signal and not worry about tweaking the dial concerning the frequency cutoffs and filter settings - just dial in the gain setting. The best thing to do is to separately wire the CD-Player and the amp to the battery with fuses inline - you won't get face dimming and the stress on you unit that already gets pretty hot as it is.
Total cost - $279 at Future Shop - floor model marked down from $349 - floor model and TWO year extended warranty on the whole unit.

The amp is a Pioneer GMX-302? and puts out max 100W x2 or 70W x2 RMS with .08 THD (not good but it's not cranked either). This was sufficient as far as output and the footprint meant that I could fit the amp in the glovebox! So that got wired in and the RCA feeds can be much shorter and avoid travelling along the door sills and thereby not pickup interference. Best idea I've had in a long time - no interference at all coming through - and I've experienced that on previous systems with high wattage Phoenix equipment and Line Drivers to boost RCA signals.
So the amp is powering 2x 10" home theater woofers mounted under the front seats - just spaced them back far enough so that the rubber doesn't hit on XMax (excursion) and leave them open air. The pair are wired in so that they drop the impedance from 8 ohms to 16 ohms - less load from what the amp sees but you can now adjust via the gain knob.
Total cost of the amplifier - $39.99 from $199 regular floor model in box from Canadian Tire at their discount table and cabinet.

So all in all, I have a good front sound stage, that will hit hard enough in the rump to satisfy most people but won't attract the attention of those outside you vehicle as to sealed box systems and lots of top end which is where a large percentage of your vocals and instruments are cut off at with dinky stock speakers. Spacially I have an acceptable front stage and vocal placement is general but not sketchy, it could be brough in to a better spot but I wasn't building this thing to win trophies mind you. The next best thing to do is wire in 14-16 or thicker soft jacket home theater wire preferably with a drain direction on it - I have used these in my fathers Villager/Quest and things perked up tremendously - don't even think about using the stock wiring just tape them back and run the new stuff in.

Grand total for the setup minus crimp terminals etc. ;
$5 for four pairs of matched speakers
$15 for the wiring - could have cost as much as $50 for Future shop Monster cable
$300 for the radio CD player combo
$50 for the amplifier
------
$370 dollars plus connectors you might or might not have lying around

So you lose no functionallity in the trunk, as the amp is taking up no space on the back seat or a side panel, but you sacrifice 3/4 space in the glovebox - but you should just have your photocopy of ownership and garage door opener in there anyways. The speakers are under the seats and also do not take up any valuable trunk space ... we all bought the hatch and love the fold down seats and easy of loading through the back hatch. What you do get is a much better sound regardless of what speakers, amp, wiring (as long as it is thicker and flexible), and subs you use. The image in the front is not intrusive meaning that you have the tweeters screaming right at you ears and so forth; people won't even know you have much of a system from the outside which is why I like this - you get stealth factor and don't have to necessarily sacrifice space and power if you so choose.

I can't say that you'd want to keep the original radio, cause it serves no real purpose from a good sonically superior point of view. You can make a face plate that covers your new radio player with the old unit and some ingenuity or just relocate the radio to some other spot like the glovebox or another DIN unit - but you are probably limited if your original unti is 2 DIN sized ... I haven't been able to determine who got what in the various countries as of yet. In theory you can make a pod and mount it to the dash but I think you want the original look more than anything; I would recommend hiding the new deck and installing something similar to what I have running - you will not be disappointed, period (Assumig you aren't trying to drop someone's undergarment using bass alone - I coud do another writeup on that one alone! :twisted: :wink: )

Hope this long bugger post can provide some insight into your plight. 8)

Tim


Last edited by Flying Eagle on Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:40 pm
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Location: Sudbury, Ontario
umm.. tim.. 2 8ohm loads in series makes 16ohms... your thinking of 2 8ohm loads in parallel.. that will give you 4ohms :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:28 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
*Tries to make the two blurry objects in front of him return to one*
I knew that, I swear - it's been too long without doing the electrical math, I just know enough to not kill myself and the basic loads and tolerances, but get me to tell you loads in series and parallel and I always lose one step there somewhere ...
I think I lost myself a little there, must be a short attention span thing coming back. I need to go back to school or something, college was fun for learning but I don't get the book reading that I used to.
:twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:40 pm
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Location: Sudbury, Ontario
easy way to remember when doin loads that are the same is

series = 8 * 2 = 16

parallel = 8 / 2 = 4

2 because that is the # of loads :D

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Last edited by Imon Fyre on Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:25 am 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 9:31 pm
Posts: 421
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Thanks for the (long........)post Flying Eagle
If your ever in Kingston area, hit me up.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:21 am 
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The Silent Administrator
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Well if your not at the meet, then I'll keep that in mind. I'm gonna post for someone to bring a digi-cam to the meet and then I can take some photos to post up! Cheerio
Tim


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