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 Post subject: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Location: Smyrna, Georgia
I bought my 1989 dodge cot 2 years ago from someone out of my city, who bought it from someone out of state. It has a 6-bolt 2,0L 4g63 FWD T94 Turbo with 280/280 cams. It also has a transmission with KF5M222VPZV with MW6692 just under the model number, which is for a non-turbo motor. I would like to get a F5M33 transmission for the turbo motor putting our much more HP. The only problem I have is if the F5M33 will fit my axles and my ACT 2600 Clutch. Does anyone know exactly which F5M33 transmission would work, or do I need more info to find the right one?


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Quote:
I bought my 1989 dodge cot 2 years ago from someone out of my city, who bought it from someone out of state. It has a 6-bolt 2,0L 4g63 FWD T94 Turbo with 280/280 cams. It also has a transmission with KF5M222VPZV with MW6692 just under the model number, which is for a non-turbo motor. I would like to get a F5M33 transmission for the turbo motor putting our much more HP. The only problem I have is if the F5M33 will fit my axles and my ACT 2600 Clutch. Does anyone know exactly which F5M33 transmission would work, or do I need more info to find the right one?
You were using an ACT 2600 clutch with the F5M22 transmission? The non-turbo transmissions use a smaller clutch, 215mm as opposed to the turbo, which is 225mm. If you want to run the F5M33 trans, you will need a FWD DSM turbo flywheel and turbo DSM clutch. The axles you currently have in there should work. You may have to make some modifications to the shift levers, if this hasn't already been done. There are TONS of threads about this topic on here, just do some searching.

_________________
91 GSX - 511fwhp and 352 lb/ft 25psi 110 octane, 7.68 @ 95.9mph 1/8th 21psi 91 octane, 11.93 @ 112.9mph, 117.7mph best trap speed, 20psi 91 octane
98 Volvo S70 T5 - DD

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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Axles will fit fine but you'll need a different mount on the top. The turbo trans is stepped while the na one is flat. Look for a 90-92.5 fwd turbo trans. The later models used the larger inner axle splines.

_________________
93 Mitsubishi Expo LRV 1.8/manual
95 Eagle Summit DL Coupe 1.5/manual
01 Mitsubishi Mirage ES Sedan 1.8/manual


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Location: Smyrna, Georgia
Captain Tonus- I am only assuming that I have an ACT 2600 Clutch, since the seller told me it had one. I really don't know without taking the transmission out. I do have a F5M22 transmission due to the model number I can see. It sounds like my 4G63T long block may not be a turbo charged engine in it's original car, but is one now with the non-turbo transmission. Is it possible the F5M22 could have been modified to accept the ACT 2600 Clutch? I know the colt has a SFR LSD insert in the transmission, due to it being posi-traction. The axles are new 1.6 turbo mirage. Is there any way to find out about the Clutch without taking apart the transmission?

89Mirageman- As long as I can find a F5M33 transmission that is 90-92.5, I should be fine? Should I pull one of my wheels off and count the splines in the axle?

The reason for these questions, is due to my car grinding in 2nd, won't stay in 4th, and hard to get in reverse. I was going to send it to TMZperformance in Wisconsin, but TZ told me to get rid of the F5M22 transmission with my 4g63 turbo set up. He said rebuilding the F5M22 transmission would be a waste of money, but need to invest in a used 91-96 F5M33 (for turbo 4G63 FWD), then get it rebuilt to a stage III. I just want to purchase the right transmission the first time and not worry about spending a couple of thousand dollars on the wrong transmission.


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:00 am 
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2nd Banana
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Location: San Diego, CA.
Quote:
Captain Tonus- I am only assuming that I have an ACT 2600 Clutch, since the seller told me it had one. I really don't know without taking the transmission out. I do have a F5M22 transmission due to the model number I can see. It sounds like my 4G63T long block may not be a turbo charged engine in it's original car, but is one now with the non-turbo transmission. Is it possible the F5M22 could have been modified to accept the ACT 2600 Clutch? I know the colt has a SFR LSD insert in the transmission, due to it being posi-traction. The axles are new 1.6 turbo mirage. Is there any way to find out about the Clutch without taking apart the transmission?
I don't think ACT makes a 2600 in a 215mm size, but I could be wrong. If you take it apart, and it has a FWD DSM turbo flywheel, then it has a DSM clutch on it as well, and you are good. This would all work with a F5M33 tranny. If not, you need all new stuff.
Quote:
The reason for these questions, is due to my car grinding in 2nd, won't stay in 4th, and hard to get in reverse. I was going to send it to TMZperformance in Wisconsin, but TZ told me to get rid of the F5M22 transmission with my 4g63 turbo set up. He said rebuilding the F5M22 transmission would be a waste of money, but need to invest in a used 91-96 F5M33 (for turbo 4G63 FWD), then get it rebuilt to a stage III. I just want to purchase the right transmission the first time and not worry about spending a couple of thousand dollars on the wrong transmission.
The shop is right. Building a F5M22 would be a complete waste of time. You would benefit a lot from the taller final-drive in a F5M33. For the record, the ONLY F5M33 that you can run easily is a 90-92 model. 93-94 had larger splines in the diff, and your axles will not work. 95+ is all 2g stuff, and is just way way different.

_________________
91 GSX - 511fwhp and 352 lb/ft 25psi 110 octane, 7.68 @ 95.9mph 1/8th 21psi 91 octane, 11.93 @ 112.9mph, 117.7mph best trap speed, 20psi 91 octane
98 Volvo S70 T5 - DD

http://www.facebook.com/captaintonus


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:59 am 
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Location: Smyrna, Georgia
CaptainTonus-
I really appreciate the information. I really didn't want to take it apart yet, but I probably don't have a choice, especially if I am going to purchase a F5M33 anyway. I will email later after seeing what kind of clutch and flywheel I actually have.


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:18 pm 
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If you are grinding in second, poping out of fourth, and can't go in reverse, I would take a look at how the previous owner modified the shift linkage. It sounds to me like it's not done correctly. It's common knowlege around here that the DSM linkages don't line up correctly with the CSM shifter and cables.

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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Good call Coltsfan, might be as simple as swapping in the correct shift levers. I believe ACT makes a 2100 for the na dsm, I know it fits the 1.8 cars with the F5M22 trans too. Or it could be an Ebay clutch for the na dsm too.

No need to count the splines on the trans, just look at the letters right after the F5M33 on the trans. Come back and look on CAPS or do some searching online and those #'s and letters will tell you exactly what trans it is. You can also yank the valve cover off and look at the headbolts. If they are allen heads its a 6 bolt and more than likely the correct trans. If they are 12 point bolts its a 7 bolt and will have the larger axles. This is of course assuming none of the parts have been swapped out which is possible with the age on these things.

_________________
93 Mitsubishi Expo LRV 1.8/manual
95 Eagle Summit DL Coupe 1.5/manual
01 Mitsubishi Mirage ES Sedan 1.8/manual


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:56 am
Posts: 73
Location: Smyrna, Georgia
It might be the shift linkage has moved in the past 20 miles I have driven it. I never had a problem with it jumping out of gear until recently, and just noticed the last time I drove it that it would not go in reverse for more than one or two seconds after releasing the clutch. I will check for slippage in the cable tomorrow, after it stops raining. I thought it was my transmission just giving out, and did not think about the shift linkage, since I have always had grinding in 2nd gear only ( about 20% of the time).


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Posts: 73
Location: Smyrna, Georgia
I have some updates since I posted back on June 10th;

I took the Colt to Battleground Engineering in Smyrna, GA to look at my linkage. The linkage looked fine, except it had been modified on the transmission linkage side by drilling another hole about 1/2 inch inside the factory hole. But Battleground noticed that my lower radiator hose was rubbing against the linkage when the car was in 4th and reverse, so we tied off the hose to get free clearance on the linkage which allowed the car to go into reverse and 4th gear right away, however after 5 miles of driving, 4th gear was still slipping out, but reverse was fine. Since my plan was to get another transmission anyway, I did not worry about 4th gear.

Last week I purchased a KF5M332 SPZS transmission from MI and had it shipped to WI for rebuild into a Stage-III with Quaife LSD. I have not seen the transmission yet.

I also removed my KF5M22 Transmission from the Colt. It is a 6-bolt flywheel, an ACT pressure plate, and a 6 puck solid disc.

-The 6 puck disc is #6214004, which can be for either n/t or t
-The Pressure Plate is #070220011, with the #147 and #390 on the plates, has 45.27mm center gap of all plates. I can not figure out which pressure plate this is.
-The Flywheel is 267.44mm diameter, on the transmission side, and 246.5mm inside diameter of the gear ring on the engine side (I am not sure how to measure, I can not get 215mm or 225mm), and has #'s K1, 62F, and 1531 stamped on the engine side
-The shaft of the F5M22 is 20mm inside gears and 21.75mm outside gears

-My question now is, can I save the pressure plate, if it is a 2600? (I have emailed ACT to find out which one it is).
-Do I need to purchase another starter, or will the one off the F5M22 work?
-I will probably purchase a lighweight flywheel anyway, so the flywheel may not matter.
-The 6-puck disc will not work, since the shaft on the F5M33 is larger, so I will purchase another 6-puck disc. If the pressure plate is not for a 2600 or the new ACT Xtreme MB-10X, I will probably purchase another Clutch Kit (when I can save the money), unless I should just get a new pressure plate to match the new disc.


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Location: Smyrna, Georgia
I removed the transmission this week and found it has a MB012X Pressure Plate, which is the 2600 kit, according to ACT tech guy, after reviewing the numbers on the pressure plate, which is 147 and 390 on the plates. The solid 6-puck disc, # 6214004, is also for a turbo charged motor. Apparently, the clutch was built for the motor, which is a non-turbo motor changed to a turbo motor with cams, lifters, and oil pan with oil feed to turbo charger. I found the model # of the block to be 4A3 CS44 R5NE 010 537. Which means it is a 1992 non turbo block.

It looks like a may have to buy a new clutch with disc when I get my F5M33 transmission, after I purchase a lightweight flywheel.


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Location: Lyndhurst,VA
Quote:
I removed the transmission this week and found it has a MB012X Pressure Plate, which is the 2600 kit, according to ACT tech guy, after reviewing the numbers on the pressure plate, which is 147 and 390 on the plates. The solid 6-puck disc, # 6214004, is also for a turbo charged motor. Apparently, the clutch was built for the motor, which is a non-turbo motor changed to a turbo motor with cams, lifters, and oil pan with oil feed to turbo charger. I found the model # of the block to be 4A3 CS44 R5NE 010 537. Which means it is a 1992 non turbo block.

It looks like a may have to buy a new clutch with disc when I get my F5M33 transmission, after I purchase a lightweight flywheel.
You should look into the dxd south bend disk, I put one in my car and love it so much! They aren't very kind to aluminum flywheels though, they heat them up really fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:56 am
Posts: 73
Location: Smyrna, Georgia
I looked up the dxd south bend disk. It looks very impressive for a turbo charged motor. I was thinking about getting the Fidanza 8# flywheel that is aluminum with steel surface coat to absorb the disc heat at the track, plus the tz/fe-series full-face kevlar/feramic sprung clutch disk for street and track use. I am not sure about the pressure plate. I like the feel of the ACT 2600, but I am not sure my MB012X P/PL Extreme plate that fits the F5M22 will fit the F5M33 Transmission I am getting built. Does anyone know?

I will try to ask ACT Tech support on Monday.


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:03 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Does the current flywheel have a step on it. All turbo dsm flywheels do and need a pressure plate for it which does not work on non-stepped n/a flywheels. You'll need an other pressure plate.

_________________
05 wrx wagon
99 Benz ML 320
91 eagle summit swapped - 6/4 bolt combo
94 Audi s4 - sold
88 Eagle Vista Turbo LX sedan, RIP


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 Post subject: Re: Transmission Swap
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:56 am
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Location: Smyrna, Georgia
I am not sure about the step in the flywheel. So, If I am getting the 1990 KF5M33 Transmission for my 1992 n/t block, I would need to order a Fidanza turbocharged 6-bolt fllywheel which will be stepped, a new pressure plate to fit the new turbocharged disc. Or, will I have a problem with the turbo charged Fidanza flywheel fitting the 1992 n/t block?


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