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E85 with just bigger injectors?
http://4g61t.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=34087		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Legolas337 [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  E85 with just bigger injectors?
What size injectors would be needed to just install in a stock 4G15 to run straight e85? Is this at all possible? Just curious as to what it would take to run E85 on one of these things! I would think that if you just put in bigger injectors that it should work. Let me know thanks!
Author:  CaptainTonus [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
Quote:
What size injectors would be needed to just install in a stock 4G15 to run straight e85? Is this at all possible? Just curious as to what it would take to run E85 on one of these things! I would think that if you just put in bigger injectors that it should work. Let me know thanks!
You would need a way to tune it, just putting in E85 isn't going to help, it will probably make the car run worse and get a LOT crappier gas mileage. There's really no point in doing this on an 80hp 4G15...
Author:  89D15CRX [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you also need a special gas tank and fuel lines to handle the more corrosive E85 fuel? I'm pretty sure that the problem with cars that are not setup for this is that it is more corrosive than regular gas. But I could be wrong, I just thought I heard that from somewhere.
Author:  CaptainTonus [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
Quote:
Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you also need a special gas tank and fuel lines to handle the more corrosive E85 fuel? I'm pretty sure that the problem with cars that are not setup for this is that it is more corrosive than regular gas. But I could be wrong, I just thought I heard that from somewhere.
No, you don't need a different tank and lines. Alcohol is corrosive, but E85 is mixed with regular pump gas so it's not as potent as say, Methanol would be.
Author:  Legolas337 [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
I know it will run really crappy, as I have tried it in a previous 4g15. My qeustion is it just needs more fuel than pump gas, so would adding like 210cc injectors fix that issue? would it work or would the ecu know what injectors are installed?
Author:  CaptainTonus [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
Quote:
I know it will run really crappy, as I have tried it in a previous 4g15. My qeustion is it just needs more fuel than pump gas, so would adding like 210cc injectors fix that issue? would it work or would the ecu know what injectors are installed?
No, the ECU would have no idea what's going on and it would just run like crap, especially at idle and partial throttle. Might be ok at WOT. You'd have to install an S'AFC or something like that to keep things happy.
Author:  Legolas337 [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
well its not turbo'ed so the fuel needed should be the same if its 91 octane or E-85. Just that to make the same amount of power with E-85 you need a static amount more than 91 oct. Am I wrong in this thinking? I would need about %20 more on average? So would 210cc injectors be too big? I would like to try this theory of mine (knowing it probably wont work) just to see if it would possibly work.
Author:  uweenukr [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
The car should have 180ish CC injectors in it now. 210 seems like a good place to start. If you have a local dyno or access to a A/F guage that is how you will know.

Putting an injector TOO big isnt as bad as one too small. Worse case it wont run.

The issue here is that you must give it more fuel for the same amount of air. The ECU doesnt care what size injector is in here. It just knows X air is coming in so dump Y fuel. It is only opening the injector for Z micro seconds.

So if you need to flow more fuel with the same air you either need to increase Y or Z. Since you dont have any tuning tools getting bigger injectors is the quick fix.

Good luck finding one that fits!

I have tried different injectors with no other mods in a 4g64 before. Gas mileage is all that was hurt. I have dyno sheets to show which worked and which didn't. Just don't put a smaller injector or a bad injector and blow the engine :)
Author:  KOTScolt [ Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
you need around ~30% more fuel when running e85. Like others have said there is no point in using e85 in your engine, your gas mileage will suffer, it wont be any faster. So basically you'll end up spending more money for what reason??
Author:  uweenukr [ Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
put a small turbo on it :P
Author:  Legolas337 [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
If E85 is a lot cheaper than regular 87 octane then it might be worth the little effort it would take to get it to run.
I am well aware that gas milage would suck. Your using %30 more fuel :rolleyes: Calculated into the big picture it might be cheaper for some people to run it.
If I only drive 5 miles to work and the car never gets fully warm, runs pig rich, and sucks regular gas down like a drunk, adding some bigger injectors that were free and running E-85 would save me quite a few bucks every week.
Just trying to think outside our little tin-can boxes for cheap. 8)
Author:  MattGSR [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
why not try it of you have some spare injectors laying around, who knows it might work and save you a few bucks on gas. You could always put it back to stock if it doesnt work out
Author:  KOTScolt [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
Also something to consider is the "e85 black goo" not all people get this, depends on who the supplier of e85 is. I had it so bad that it literally had my injector stuck open and filled the oil pan with about a gallon of e85. Switching back to 93 gets the injectors clean again. So to avoid this you would have to run a tank of regular gas every couple of gas to clean the deposits left by e85.
Author:  KOTScolt [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
Just wanted to add. If paying less at the pump is your goal the cheap/less work option would probably to make up some kind of intake restrictor. Less air you pull into the engine less fuel you'll use.
Author:  MattGSR [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: E85 with just bigger injectors?
how long before you noticed the black goo on your injectors...Been running e85 on the evo since september, should i be worried and check the injectors now. It's sort of a hit and miss thing, of all the folks around my area that use e85, we've only seen it in one car and he was using c16, 100oct for awhile before switching to e85. Not sure if that made a difference.
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